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Wooden Gears

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  • #479790
    michael howarth 1
    Participant
      @michaelhowarth1

      My son is building a wooden traction engine. I have already warned him of the difficulties of raising steam in a pine boiler wink but he is pursuing the project and as he is a glutton for punishment wishes to make a full gear chain in wood. What sort of wood would the forum advise that he uses?

      Mick

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      #2941
      michael howarth 1
      Participant
        @michaelhowarth1

        Best wood to use for wooden gears

        #479791
        Pete Rimmer
        Participant
          @peterimmer30576

          Ironwood laugh

          #479795
          Brian G
          Participant
            @briang

            Watermills and windmills used fruitwood such as apple for gear teeth, although this was running against cast iron. This website has a list of the properties of different timbers for making wooden clock gears, so it might be relevant.

            Brian G

            #479796
            Michael Gilligan
            Participant
              @michaelgilligan61133

              Hornbeam was what they used for the inserted teeth in things like water wheels. **LINK**

              https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/trees-woods-and-wildlife/british-trees/a-z-of-british-trees/hornbeam/

              He might also find this interesting : **LINK**

              Rick Hale: Wooden Clocks Designed And Built As If By John Harrison Except Today And In The USA (Beautiful Photos + Videos)

              MichaelG.

              .

              Oops … no conflict intended Brian [our posts crossed in the æther]

              Edited By Michael Gilligan on 14/06/2020 14:12:38

              #479797
              Dalboy
              Participant
                @dalboy

                It all depends on whether it will just be a static model or one when pushed the gears will turn or even to the point of running it on air.

                For a static model, any close-grained wood will do.

                Woods that would be suitable for moving gears I would suggest Lignum Vitae very close grain and takes detail well, beech is another that is suitable, also a cabinet grade plywood as that will give strength in all directions.

                Those that make wooden clocks tend to go the plywood route.

                Lignum vitae is hard to come by and I can't remember if it is now on cites list. If the gears are small and you want the LV wood then look for old Bowls balls before they started using composite materials.

                I was very fortunate in that I was able to get 18 LV balls and I know they are not cheap to buy. Also worth noting is that LV was used as bearing material because of its oily nature which can also be a downfall if you want to glue anything to it a wipe over with thinners and glueing immediately seems to work.

                I forgot boxwood which in woodturning circles takes a screw thread very well

                Edited By Derek Lane on 14/06/2020 14:17:19

                #479804
                not done it yet
                Participant
                  @notdoneityet

                  Just as an alternative – one can get ‘wood’ filament for 3-D printers. I don’t know how realistic it might look.🙂. Some have wood fibres rather than powder.

                  #479810
                  Jeff Dayman
                  Participant
                    @jeffdayman43397

                    For different toys I have made for young relatives I cut the gears from good quality aircraft 5 ply plywood. This effectively solved the grain issue with the gears, which were very lightly loaded. The glue used in the plywood was very good, no delamination during cutting or in use occurred. Just food for thought.

                    #479812
                    Bazyle
                    Participant
                      @bazyle

                      Although a wooden boiler would be difficult for steam it might be possible for say CO2.
                      Don't forget some unlikely materials have been used in the past like granite for Cornish tin mine engines.

                      #479817
                      Bo’sun
                      Participant
                        @bosun58570

                        Another vote for Hornbeam and Fruit woods. Lignum Vitae would be a good choice, although a little expensive and not that easy to get hold of except as Woodturning blanks. The "self lubricating" properties of LV could be useful, but as a consequence, make it difficult to glue.

                        Interesting project, keep us posted on progress.

                        #479819
                        JasonB
                        Moderator
                          @jasonb

                          I'm with Jeff on a good quality birch ply, no problem with short grain causing half the teeth to break off or the gear going oval if its not well seasoned when brought inside a Centrally heated enviroment

                          #479820
                          clogs
                          Participant
                            @clogs

                            oak was also used a a bearing along with a dolop of tallow……..

                            pretty sure LV is a restricted wood now…….

                            A poor relation is Almond wood……very heavy and quite hard, def dence……..

                            Lucky for me it grows wild on my plot…….biggest trunk I've found was 4-6"……

                            #479821
                            ega
                            Participant
                              @ega

                              In his delightful book, The Village Carpenter, Walter Rose describes the process of re-cogging a mill wheel for which "hard dry beech" was used. The wooden cogs ran against cast iron gear teeth and the mesh of the finished job was checked by ear.

                              PS Palo Santo is similar to LV.

                              Edited By ega on 14/06/2020 16:27:31

                              #479822
                              DC31k
                              Participant
                                @dc31k
                                Posted by JasonB on 14/06/2020 16:06:55:

                                I'm with Jeff on a good quality birch ply, no problem with short grain causing half the teeth to break off or the gear going oval if its not well seasoned when brought inside a centrally heated environment

                                Agree in spades. No natural wood of any species can have strong teeth on all four points of the compass. If the teeth at 12 o'clock are parallel with the grain, those at 3 o'clock will be perpendicular to it.

                                For a really well engineered wooden gear, maybe plies at 30 or 45 degree increments made from birch veneer would provide a good solution. Epoxy resin to glue the plies and a good squeeze in a cider press while it is curing.

                                Presumably he knows of Mattius Wandel and the woodgears.ca site.

                                Edited By DC31k on 14/06/2020 16:26:33

                                #479823
                                vic francis
                                Participant
                                  @vicfrancis

                                  Wow great project! Well when he returns to school see the Design Technology technician; most likely the school should have a laser cutter or possibly cnc router… if so explain your project and take a drawing to get them interested! As laser cutter will cut lite ply to 5mm , if you draw your gears ( search the web for a gear catalogue) and use their line cad drawing of suitable gear( thanks Jason))… it should be possible to enlarge or reduce the dxf drawing on school Techsoft software or the laser cam software : then laminate together after cutting and preferably do the central bore for the shafts to the centre and perhaps a small hole offset for a dowel pin so that the gears sandwich together and teeth arrange in rows! Which helps on assembly

                                  The whole gear assembly could be given a coat of cellulose dope to toughen the fibres!

                                  No need for lignum or hornbeam ( I have used it; too hard to work) and feel it would be to hard to use for a young person unless supervised and access to equipment.

                                  Incidentally I have seen 3d printed gears which may work… but think wood best. Same for Flywheel!

                                  It depends upon what scale the model is being made at? But the thread suggestion above is possible ie air running! Or electric motor…

                                  Great Project.

                                  Regards

                                  vic

                                  #479825
                                  Mick B1
                                  Participant
                                    @mickb1

                                    Purpleheart is quite attractive and close-grained.

                                    But the missus thinks it smells of sick…

                                    #479826
                                    Michael Gilligan
                                    Participant
                                      @michaelgilligan61133
                                      Posted by DC31k on 14/06/2020 16:25:24:

                                      Posted by JasonB on 14/06/2020 16:06:55:

                                      I'm with Jeff on a good quality birch ply, no problem with short grain causing half the teeth to break off or the gear going oval if its not well seasoned when brought inside a centrally heated environment

                                      Agree in spades. No natural wood of any species can have strong teeth on all four points of the compass. If the teeth at 12 o'clock are parallel with the grain, those at 3 o'clock will be perpendicular to it.

                                      […]

                                      .

                                      True …That’s why I referenced inserted teeth

                                      MichaelG.

                                      #479827
                                      Speedy Builder5
                                      Participant
                                        @speedybuilder5

                                        I guess it depends upon what size / scale it will be ? If its a model, I would go for Beech Jabroc – after all it is wood.

                                        Will he paint it or rentokill it ?

                                        #479829
                                        Mike Poole
                                        Participant
                                          @mikepoole82104

                                          I knew a chap who built a wooden engine, it wooden go.smiley

                                          Mike

                                          #479833
                                          Russell Eberhardt
                                          Participant
                                            @russelleberhardt48058

                                            Robbibs Timber supply marine ply to BS standards from 1.5 mm up. 5 mm up is available in five or more ply. Varnishing with epoxy resin should give good strength. They can supply full sheets or cut to size. I've had excellent service including delivery to France.

                                            Russell

                                            #479845
                                            Roderick Jenkins
                                            Participant
                                              @roderickjenkins93242

                                              I agree that birch ply is probably the best choice. However, if the look is not acceptable then Pear is pretty isotropic, has no obvious grain and machines well with engineering tools. This will be the bridge of my Baroque guitar, the slot was milled with a 4mm 4 flute cutter.

                                              p1.jpg

                                              This is one of the "Moustaches" that will be glued to the soundboard on the ends of the bridge. This is also in Pear but has been dyed black. Cut on the CNC mill with a 1mm 2 flute carbide endmill.

                                              p2.jpg

                                              HTH,

                                              Rod

                                              #479988
                                              Michael Gilligan
                                              Participant
                                                @michaelgilligan61133

                                                A philosophical question, which probably only Mick H’s son can answer:

                                                Does ready-made ply qualify as ‘wood’ ?

                                                … or, as an ‘engineered material’ would its use be considered cheating ?

                                                MichaelG.

                                                #479999
                                                Adrian R2
                                                Participant
                                                  @adrianr2

                                                  This may be of interest – https://woodgears.ca/air_engine/, seems to run nicely and plans are for sale quite reasonably.

                                                  There is also a nice gear template generator on the site (as you might guess from the name!)

                                                  edit: oops, missed earlier reference, but the air engine specifically is worth an extra mention.

                                                  Edited By Adrian R2 on 15/06/2020 13:16:15

                                                  #480047
                                                  AdrianR
                                                  Participant
                                                    @adrianr18614

                                                    Having just finished my very first attempt at carving, a love spoon as an anniversary present, I can vouch for the hardness of hornbeam. It started as a branch on my woodpile that was there for a couple of years, so was well seasoned and has come up with a great finish.

                                                    I have read when it is green it is easier to work.

                                                    Hmm, a wooden boiler, now that sounds like an interesting challenge, after all, you can boil water in a paper bag over a fire.

                                                    Adrian

                                                    #480054
                                                    Michael Gilligan
                                                    Participant
                                                      @michaelgilligan61133
                                                      Posted by AdrianR on 15/06/2020 19:02:37:

                                                      Having just finished my very first attempt at carving, a love spoon as an anniversary present, I can vouch for the hardness of hornbeam. It started as a branch on my woodpile that was there for a couple of years, so was well seasoned and has come up with a great finish.

                                                      I have read when it is green it is easier to work.

                                                       

                                                      .

                                                      It was specifically coppiced for the manufacture of gear teeth … so preliminary shaping almost certainly worked green.

                                                       

                                                      MichaelG.

                                                      .

                                                      P.S. __ When I worked in Stevenage, the coppice was my lunchtime walk.

                                                      http://www.stevenage.gov.uk/landscape-woodlands/25612/

                                                      Edited By Michael Gilligan on 15/06/2020 19:49:49

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