Pre-Paint Degreasing

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Pre-Paint Degreasing

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  • #659085
    Steve Crow
    Participant
      @stevecrow46066

      I've a few alumium parts to paint in the near future.

      I'm wondering the best way to give them a thorough cleaning before the etch priming.

      Would pure isopropyl alcohol do the trick? Maybe diluted with distilled water?

      If not, any alternative suggestions would be welcome, preferably household or easily/cheaply obtainable.

      Cheers, Steve

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      #29360
      Steve Crow
      Participant
        @stevecrow46066
        #659087
        Robert Atkinson 2
        Participant
          @robertatkinson2

          Brake cleaner or acetone

          Robert.

          #659088
          duncan webster 1
          Participant
            @duncanwebster1

            I use the dishwasher, but try it on some scrap first as I suspect it might attack ally. If doing steel get it out as soon as its done the rinse or it will rust

            #659089
            Baz
            Participant
              @baz89810

              Grit blasting or cellulose thinners would be my first choice.

              #659092
              Nick Wheeler
              Participant
                @nickwheeler
                Posted by Baz on 04/09/2023 19:25:30:

                Grit blasting or cellulose thinners would be my first choice.

                Thinners. He'll already have some to use with the primeryes

                #659093
                SillyOldDuffer
                Moderator
                  @sillyoldduffer

                  Depends on the type of grease, how much there is, and how clean the parts need to be.

                  Often as not a lightly contaminated surface can be cleaned well enough by wiping over with a clean cotton rag soaked in Acetone or isopropyl alcohol. Both should be full strength, not diluted with water.

                  I often wipe with Acetone, rinse under the tap, dry and then wipe over with IPA. This is because some greases are more soluble in Ketones than Alcohols and vice versa. Using Acetone and IPA in sequence is belt and braces.

                  If cleanliness is important, washing in Acetone, followed by washing in IPA, followed by washing in very hot water with detergent, followed by a water rinse, and finishing with an IPA rinse. This isn't always good enough.

                  Viewed through a microscope metal is seen to be full of tiny cracks and caves. Getting grease out of these requires stern measures, perhaps boiling in distilled water with detergent for an hour or two, followed by a sequence of Acetone and IPA washes and rinses.

                  Don't use alkaline degreasers on Aluminium, they corrode the metal.

                  Wear clean rubber gloves, and before starting make sure they aren't attacked by Acetone. It's an excellent solvent, including skin!

                  The best solvents are often low flash point hydrocarbons. Petrol works well, but it's very dangerous. Cellulose Thinners, Acetone and IPA are considerably safer. Diesel gets heavy grease off, but is greasy itself – more trouble than it's worth. I've had mixed results with my ultrasonic cleaner.

                  Dave

                  #659105
                  Chris Pearson 1
                  Participant
                    @chrispearson1
                    Posted by duncan webster on 04/09/2023 19:20:21:

                    I use the dishwasher, but try it on some scrap first as I suspect it might attack ally. If doing steel get it out as soon as its done the rinse or it will rust

                    Dishwasher tablets are strongly alkaline and will dissolve aluminium and its alloys.

                    Try cellulose thinners and a toothbrush.

                    #659112
                    Kiwi Bloke
                    Participant
                      @kiwibloke62605

                      The use of a grease solvent is widely advocated, but it's not the best method. Think about it: the solvent produces a dilute grease solution, which spreads all over the substrate – then evaporates, leaving grease residue on the surface. If using solvents, you need to use enough to wash the substrate – repeatedly – so the grease is carried away. It gets expensives, and time-consuming. However, since it's so widely used, it is presumably good enough… Probably.

                      It's better to scrub the alloy with household scouring powder, and rinse with 'distilled' water (from de-icing the freezer, perhaps). Test for success by dropping water on the cleaned surface. It should completely wet the surface, with the drops forming a microscopically thin film. Any signs of the water not wanting to form a film, or frank beading, means it's not de-greased. Oh, and, of course, rinse and repeat…

                      #659113
                      Hollowpoint
                      Participant
                        @hollowpoint

                        I use isopropyl or thinners for cleaning. Thinners is better but the fumes are potent.

                        #659134
                        Graham Stoppani
                        Participant
                          @grahamstoppani46499

                          Dan Gelbart is rather dismissive of using solvents to prepare metals for painting. He says a sand blaster, bluing or Ajax, of all things, is best. After watching the video below I tried Ajax myself and it seemed to work fine, but I'm no expert.

                          Take a look and see what you think.

                          #659139
                          Dave Wootton
                          Participant
                            @davewootton

                            I must warn of the extreme danger of putting metal machine parts in the dishwasher, if the wife comes home and catches you the repercussions are most unpleasant!

                            I speak from experience……..

                            Dave

                            #659144
                            derek hall 1
                            Participant
                              @derekhall1
                              Posted by Dave Wootton on 05/09/2023 07:36:24:

                              I must warn of the extreme danger of putting metal machine parts in the dishwasher, if the wife comes home and catches you the repercussions are most unpleasant!

                              I speak from experience……..

                              Dave

                              In addition to never admitting to using the domestic oven for anything other than domestic duties.

                              No matter how little evidence is left after you meticulously cleaned up (even after watching lots of forensic science/police series on the telly to get some hints and tips) after temporarily commandeering it engineering/workshop purposes, she will know…..

                              Regards

                              Derek

                              #659148
                              Ches Green UK
                              Participant
                                @chesgreenuk

                                Graham,

                                That video by Dan Gelbart is very informative, thanks.

                                Hmm…I guess I need to add 'Sand Blaster' to my Amazon Wishlist

                                Ches

                                #659168
                                Bo’sun
                                Participant
                                  @bosun58570

                                  Graham, mentions the use of Ajax. Has anyone tried getting hold of "Ajax", or "Vim" for that matter. Last time I looked, Vim seemed very pricey for what is was. Or maybe I'm just out of touch!

                                  #659183
                                  duncan webster 1
                                  Participant
                                    @duncanwebster1
                                    Posted by Dave Wootton on 05/09/2023 07:36:24:

                                    I must warn of the extreme danger of putting metal machine parts in the dishwasher, if the wife comes home and catches you the repercussions are most unpleasant!

                                    I speak from experience……..

                                    Dave

                                    Worst case of this was when I was a teenager, mother returned home early to find a motorcycle engine in the bath

                                    #659188
                                    SillyOldDuffer
                                    Moderator
                                      @sillyoldduffer
                                      Posted by Graham Stoppani on 05/09/2023 06:25:49:

                                      Dan Gelbart is rather dismissive of using solvents to prepare metals for painting. He says a sand blaster, bluing or Ajax, of all things, is best.

                                      Suitably chosen solvents are unlikely to damage the surface, whereas abrasives do.

                                      Maybe painting implies that scratching and pitting the surface isn't a problem, and it's often done deliberately to provide a key. But abrasives aren't smart if the object is to be anodised.

                                      I don't know exactly what's in Ajax or Vim. They're both scouring powders and these contain an abrasive such as chalk with a degreaser such as Sodium Carbonate, and Bleaching Powder (active ingredient Chlorine). I'd avoid using them on light metal alloys – anything containing Aluminium, Magnesium or Zinc. Cleaning is good, corroding is bad!

                                      Dave

                                      #659189
                                      bernard towers
                                      Participant
                                        @bernardtowers37738

                                        If I remember correctly the base of Vim and Ajax is pumice powder.

                                        Edited By bernard towers on 05/09/2023 12:10:19

                                        #659195
                                        Bo’sun
                                        Participant
                                          @bosun58570

                                          Bernard,

                                          You're probably right, and very gritty pumice powder.

                                          #659221
                                          Mike Poole
                                          Participant
                                            @mikepoole82104
                                            Posted by Dave Wootton on 05/09/2023 07:36:24:

                                            I must warn of the extreme danger of putting metal machine parts in the dishwasher, if the wife comes home and catches you the repercussions are most unpleasant!

                                            I speak from experience……..

                                            Dave

                                            A friend put his motorcycle crankcases in the dishwasher, they came out lovely and clean and he is still a happily married man.

                                            Mike

                                            #659303
                                            Graham Stoppani
                                            Participant
                                              @grahamstoppani46499
                                              Posted by Bo'sun on 05/09/2023 10:08:53:

                                              Graham, mentions the use of Ajax. Has anyone tried getting hold of "Ajax", or "Vim" for that matter. Last time I looked, Vim seemed very pricey for what is was. Or maybe I'm just out of touch!

                                              Had to buy mine online.

                                              #659329
                                              Nick Wheeler
                                              Participant
                                                @nickwheeler
                                                Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 05/09/2023 12:04:49:

                                                Posted by Graham Stoppani on 05/09/2023 06:25:49:

                                                Dan Gelbart is rather dismissive of using solvents to prepare metals for painting. He says a sand blaster, bluing or Ajax, of all things, is best.

                                                Suitably chosen solvents are unlikely to damage the surface, whereas abrasives do.

                                                Maybe painting implies that scratching and pitting the surface isn't a problem, and it's often done deliberately to provide a key. But abrasives aren't smart if the object is to be anodised.

                                                Degreasing and surface preparation are not the same thing!

                                                You abrade the surface so the paint will stick to it mechanically/chemically.

                                                You clean the surface of anything that will prevent the paint from sticking to it. This is the last thing you do before opening the paint, and it needs to be done with something that won't leave a residue that's incompatible with the paint. That's why petrol isn't a good cleaner for this purpose.

                                                #693310
                                                John Doe 2
                                                Participant
                                                  @johndoe2

                                                  Don’t put aluminium in a dishwasher !

                                                  I have put take-away aluminium curry containers in the dishwasher prior to recycling them, and had problems with streaks of aluminium being deposited on the plates etc.

                                                  I think the dishwasher ‘soap’ tablets dissolve aluminium.

                                                   

                                                  PS, does anyone know what the active ingredient(s) in Brake parts cleaner is?

                                                   

                                                  .

                                                  #693316
                                                  Robert Atkinson 2
                                                  Participant
                                                    @robertatkinson2

                                                    Brake cleaner is typically Naphtha, a light petroleum also used as cigarette lighter fluid. Check the MSDS for the exact product. Google will generally find the MSDS.
                                                    Carb cleaner is typically Xylene or / and  Acetone.

                                                    Robert.

                                                    #693325
                                                    John Doe 2
                                                    Participant
                                                      @johndoe2

                                                      Thank you 👍

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