1/20th Scale Traction Engine

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1/20th Scale Traction Engine

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  • #455974
    Nigel (egi)
    Participant
      @nigelegi

      I've started to design and build a miniature traction engine. My first idea was to ensure the elevation fits onto a sheet of A4 paper. This next image shows a rear wheel that is 97mm in diameter:

      The spokes are 0.9mm thick brass – a great trick is to add an MDF table to the bandsaw so that you can support the brass sheet whilst cutting it.

      That's it for now, will add more details as I go, Nigel

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      #2933
      Nigel (egi)
      Participant
        @nigelegi

        The design of a miniature traction engine

        #455981
        Former Member
        Participant
          @formermember19781

          [This posting has been removed]

          #455990
          Michael Gilligan
          Participant
            @michaelgilligan61133

            Delightful yes

            MichaelG.

            #456046
            Nigel (egi)
            Participant
              @nigelegi

              I wasn't really making this to a scale, it was more to the drawing that I found online. I think this Burrell is just one of the best looking engines in terms of proportions.

              Burrell Traction Engine Drawing

              I scaled this to roughly fit a sheet of A4 paper and keeping the rear wheel rim and treads under 4 inches in diameter. The angle was me roughly looking at the angle of the boiler. I have since then worked out the scale from the specifications of some other models of this engine and it is somewhere around 1/20th in scale. I would love to find the specifications of this actual fullsize engine, from my searching I could not find the original drawings. But this is more about something that looks right and at this scale I will have to make a number of simplifications for me to be able to make it.

              I have some concerns around the clearance of the crank above the top of the firebox on my current design, but this is not unsolvable. The boiler design is simple and the firebox is a steel construction that the boiler fits into. This means you get heat on the bottom rear of the boiler and through the tubes. Not perfect, but this is a tiny boiler and this makes it easier. I will continue to add items here as I go, if you want the real detail and access to drawings then please visit my blog. Thanks, Nigel

              Edited By Nigel (egi) on 08/03/2020 11:25:21

              #456047
              Former Member
              Participant
                @formermember19781

                [This posting has been removed]

                #456050
                Nigel (egi)
                Participant
                  @nigelegi
                  Posted by Bill Chugg on 08/03/2020 11:15:13:

                  Nigel.

                  Menbership of the TRACTIONTALK forum may be worthwhile.

                  It is traction engines only, full size and minatures.

                  I am sure a question on there ref full size spec will provide you with the info.

                  Bill

                  Hi Bill, thanks for that, will have a look and post a thread. Best regards, Nigel

                  #456054
                  Former Member
                  Participant
                    @formermember19781

                    [This posting has been removed]

                    #456066
                    Former Member
                    Participant
                      @formermember19781

                      [This posting has been removed]

                      #456072
                      Nigel (egi)
                      Participant
                        @nigelegi

                        Miniature Traction Engine Parts

                        I will have to arrange another photo of the set of parts I have with the general elevation drawing.

                        This does show the section through the boiler and firebox as I was talking about in the earlier post. Hope this all helps set the scene for this engine.

                        The plans are hand drawn using a Rotring drawing table, I've played with CAD, but at the end of the day this is a hobby that relaxes me and drawing using an old fashioned board works well. The drawings are progressing and I will make them available, just not sure quite how to do that as yet…might be as pdf's, might be free as long as people send me updates and make the updates free, I thought about charging for them, but think that would just be a token amount to cover some costs – if you have experience of selling plans or giving them away for free then do let me know

                        #456074
                        Phil H1
                        Participant
                          @philh196021

                          Really nice work. I have often thought about using CAD but I agree that getting the pencils back out is nice.

                          Phil H

                          #456082
                          Richard S2
                          Participant
                            @richards2

                            Very nice to see more small scale work. Another one here in agreement of drawing by hand. Have to get the use out of my 40 year old drawing set made in czechoslovakia. Keep the updates coming.

                            Richard

                            #456112
                            Nigel (egi)
                            Participant
                              @nigelegi
                              Posted by Richard S2 on 08/03/2020 14:19:41:

                              Very nice to see more small scale work. Another one here in agreement of drawing by hand. Have to get the use out of my 40 year old drawing set made in czechoslovakia. Keep the updates coming.

                              Richard

                              Just been looking at the photographs of the Minnie TE that you've made, fantastic workmanship.

                              #456369
                              Nigel (egi)
                              Participant
                                @nigelegi

                                Had to share the pair of rear wheels with the bolts riveted over and the spokes soft soldered to the hubs. The alignment is superb as I used a jig to align the hubs and held in place whilst I heat jig and wheel to solder. All of the stages of building these wheels has taken me some time (around 8 weekends worth), but the final result is quite rewarding.

                                I need to machine the outer face of the spokes on the hub to get a clean, parallel finished surface onto which I can fit the hub cap. I'm a tad nervous of this machining step…..will let you know, Nigel

                                #456965
                                vic francis
                                Participant
                                  @vicfrancis

                                  Hi Nigel, very cool! Look forward to your progress and interesting methods. Regards vic

                                  #459217
                                  Nigel (egi)
                                  Participant
                                    @nigelegi

                                    I've been approximating the amount of fuel used and steam produced, my simple calculation for a boiler fired by methylated spirit and driving an engine at 12mm bore and stroke at 300rpm gives:

                                    1.38g water per minute => 0.26g fuel / minute

                                    the steps are given in more depth here, but wanted to share the high level numbers for this 1/20th scale traction engine.

                                    #459237
                                    bricky
                                    Participant
                                      @bricky

                                      Nigel have you tried the Burrell museum in Thetford for information on your engine,if it is still there.

                                      Frank

                                      #460640
                                      Nigel (egi)
                                      Participant
                                        @nigelegi

                                        I now have an input power of 128.7 Watts and an engine output power of 3.3 Watts, the Steam Engine and Boiler Efficiency is a ratio of the output and input:

                                        Steam Engine and Boiler Efficiency = Output Power / Input Power

                                        Miniature Traction Engine Efficiency = 3.3 / 128.7 = 0.0256 = 2.56%

                                        So, my calculated efficiency is 2.56% that feels very high for this small system and I expect a lot more losses when I put this into practice.

                                        #460641
                                        Nigel (egi)
                                        Participant
                                          @nigelegi
                                          Posted by bricky on 24/03/2020 00:03:22:

                                          Nigel have you tried the Burrell museum in Thetford for information on your engine,if it is still there.

                                          Frank

                                          Hi Frank, thanks, I looked at the museum online, will drop them a line. Best regards, Nigel

                                          #467482
                                          Nigel (egi)
                                          Participant
                                            @nigelegi

                                            I cut the front wheel rims out of a piece of 70mm diameter mild steel

                                            However, they just looked rather large compared to the rear wheels, some this is down to the fact that these are the roughed out rims and when I machine the outer rim to the proper section they will look much lighter.

                                            Overlaid on the image that I'm using to design the traction engine from and they perfectly just cover the front wheel rims.

                                            I'm spending too many hours just looking at the parts I've made so far…..

                                            #467501
                                            IanT
                                            Participant
                                              @iant
                                              Posted by Nigel (egi) on 27/04/2020 20:00:56:

                                              I'm spending too many hours just looking at the parts I've made so far…..

                                              Don't worry Nigel – you are not alone in doing that!

                                              Nice work – look forward to seeing more.

                                              Regards,

                                              IanT

                                              #470455
                                              Nigel (egi)
                                              Participant
                                                @nigelegi

                                                The rims now have the right cross-section

                                                traction engine front wheel rims

                                                The front wheels have a single bead and the spokes crossover side to side. Will be making the hub and spokes next, the hubs will be made from PB or brass at the front as they will also be bearings for the front axle.

                                                #494274
                                                Nigel (egi)
                                                Participant
                                                  @nigelegi

                                                  The firebox is starting to develop for the Miniature Burrell. As you can see the firebox is a separate steel construction and the boiler is then a simple copper tube with end plates and 7 flues. The fire (meths) will then sit below the end of the boiler in the bottom of the steel firebox.

                                                  This is a very simple boiler design as the engine is just 1/20th scale and the copper tube is just 105mm in length.

                                                  The plates are 1/8th mild steel. The plans are developing slowly as the design comes together.

                                                  #494292
                                                  Craig Brown
                                                  Participant
                                                    @craigbrown60096

                                                    Nice looking model coming together here 👍

                                                    #494477
                                                    Roger Best
                                                    Participant
                                                      @rogerbest89007

                                                      smiley Hi Nigel

                                                      Thanks for posting this and the link to your blog site in your first post. Loads of interesting reading there.

                                                      I was instantly attracted to the post as I am very much into toy engines, Mamod, Wilesco and Mercer for traction engines. Like you I am inspired by Cherry Hills work; I am a Fellow of the IMechE and I have made the pilgrimage to see her models more than once. They are breathtaking, so small that the close-up views in the book hardly make sense.

                                                      Your idea to make this pretty and fat-boilered Burrell is a sound one. There is plenty of space for heating area and transmission in the design, where a more efficient, more modern (is that the right word in 2020??) prototype would be a tight fit. You might want to nudge the size of the cylinder a little bit but it won't be much; the DM Mercer has a tiny cylinder, no steam jacket, only two small wicks and can pull a child, that is powerful enough.

                                                      Your engine will be more like a Myfordboy, due to the techniques used. That is a good runner but not very pretty and I am glad you are putting the work in to do a classier job.

                                                      I look forward to further instalments with great interest.

                                                      Thanks

                                                      Rog

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