Holding pipe when anodising??

Advert

Holding pipe when anodising??

Home Forums General Questions Holding pipe when anodising??

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 30 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #644859
    Bevel
    Participant
      @bevel

      Hi All,

      Hope this query finds you all well.

      Another question about anodising sorry but here goes. Want to anodise the outside dia of some 38mm tube only about 175mm long but stuck on how I'm going to attach the power? Thought about inserting a 'bung' down the inside but surely theres gotta be an easier better way to do it? Your suggestions would be gratefully accepted ladies and gents. TIA

      Advert
      #29176
      Bevel
      Participant
        @bevel
        #644865
        David Senior
        Participant
          @davidsenior29320

          Bend a piece of heavy aluminium (or titanium!) wire into a 'J' shape such that the bend jams into the tube, and attach your cable to that.

          Dave

          #644868
          Nicholas Farr
          Participant
            @nicholasfarr14254

            Hi Bevel, use a nut and bolt with washers to span over the ends, or if your not bothered about the inside getting anodized, use Dave's idea.

            Regards Nick.

            #644873
            Bevel
            Participant
              @bevel

              Both stirling ideas thanks chaps

              #644920
              Fulmen
              Participant
                @fulmen

                I have always used Davids method.

                #644925
                Bevel
                Participant
                  @bevel

                  My only query with Davids method is, wouldn't you have to take the inside surface area of tube into consideration when it comes to time, current etc?

                  #644929
                  Fulmen
                  Participant
                    @fulmen

                    Sure. Personally I have never done just the outside. Either it hasn't mattered or I have wanted everything coated. It's quite doable to seal off the inside, but it's more work and adds challenges like buoyancy.

                    #644934
                    Bevel
                    Participant
                      @bevel

                      Yeah I get that, I'm not bothered tbh I only care about the outside but its not as simple as that is it lol, if only eh.

                      #645874
                      Fred Jolly 1
                      Participant
                        @fredjolly1

                        Bit late for this one but when anidising or plating something like that I use bulldog or market stall clips . Fit the handles inside the pipe and let them expand to grip the pipe . Fasten the power supply to the clip and away you go. Simple and effective.

                        #645882
                        Bevel
                        Participant
                          @bevel

                          Yep that'll do it, another great idea thx Fred

                          #645892
                          Fulmen
                          Participant
                            @fulmen

                            I would be a little hesitant with putting any foreign metal into the anodizing bath, even if it wasn't connected to the power. This is another place where a 3D printer might come in handy. IIRC ABS can handle weak sulfuric acid fairly well.

                            #645895
                            Fatgadgi
                            Participant
                              @fatgadgi

                              I think Dave’s method would be how I’d do it as well.

                              Anodising, if I remember correctly, will not work on the full inside of a pipe anyway.

                              Cheers Will

                              #645928
                              Bevel
                              Participant
                                @bevel

                                I presumed Fred's method involved using bulldog clips or the like made of aluminium rather than regular galvanised steel.

                                Peculiar that it doesn't work so well on the inside tho but its an amazing process and one I'm still trying to master. Its taking me an age mind you and I still get occasional 'white' spots on components where the dye hasn't quite taken.

                                Has me pulling my hair out, well it would have if I had any lol, frequently and I still have my fingers crossed every time I do it

                                #645932
                                Fulmen
                                Participant
                                  @fulmen

                                  But what about the spring? Any metal (other than Al and Ti) connected to the anode will dissolve rapidly, it's a well known secret for removing broken taps from aluminum.

                                  As for white spots, it's usually caused by dirt/grease or air bubbles stuck to the part. Cleanliness is extremely important.

                                  #645936
                                  Bevel
                                  Participant
                                    @bevel

                                    Ah yes the spring didn't think of that.

                                    I wash the parts with washing liquid, dry them with kitchen towel, then in between each step I give them a brush off with individual brushes using de-io water. But after the anodise step I wash off with de-io which is slightly ph+ or ph- can't remember which as I read thats better. I also have water aerator set up in anodise bath to hopefully erradicate any sticking bubbles. I never handle components with bare hands either after washing

                                    #645939
                                    Andy_G
                                    Participant
                                      @andy_g

                                      Anodising will work perfectly well on all surfaces in contact with the liquid, including the inside of a tube. (It's unlike electroplating in this respect.). One just needs to ensure that the bubbles generated during the process don't get trapped anywhere, as this will prevent those areas being anodised.

                                      I wouldn't put anything other than aluminium, titanium or lead in the anodising bath – definitely not steel.

                                      White spots will be where something has shielded the part from the bath for all or part of the process – a bubble, dirt, the point where the part is held, grease spots, etc.

                                      For a tube, provided I wasn't bothered about marks on the inside, I'd just bend some titanium / aluminium wire into a 'J' as above. For more stability, you can add multiple up/down bends to the tail of the J so there are several contact points inside the tube.

                                      "I still have my fingers crossed every time I do it" – do you work out the current required for each part to a consistent current density (amps per square inch / foot / mm / cm)? Do you use a constant current powersupply?

                                      #645978
                                      Bevel
                                      Participant
                                        @bevel

                                        Hi Andy,

                                        I used to calculate area and use the 720 rule, back then I used a controllable power supply but my results were rubbish. I went back to my trusty old Wilko 5 amp battery charger and have much more success tbh.

                                        Obviously I was doing something wrong and got confused with exactly how much surface area needed to be calculated. Say for instance we take the tube I mentioned, do I need to calculate the whole surface area for outer and inner dia's? Also when doing multiple parts do I say calculate whole area for one then times by number I intend to do in one hit? All got a bit confusing so I trialled and error and recorded results of Ines that can eout ok and used them as bench marks if that makes sense. Like I say crossing fingers lol

                                        #645979
                                        Fatgadgi
                                        Participant
                                          @fatgadgi

                                          Anodising will work perfectly well on all surfaces in contact with the liquid, including the inside of a tube. (It's unlike electroplating in this respect.). One just needs to ensure that the bubbles generated during the process don't get trapped anywhere, as this will prevent those areas being anodised.

                                          That’s good to know Andy.

                                          I thought it was more difficult than that – I’m sure I recall an industrial supplier making jigs with internal cathodes running the length of the bore to get full coverage and an even thickness, as well as clever agitation.

                                          But, I’ve never tried at home, and I wouldn’t put it past a supplier to rip us off and tie us in with special tooling 😂😂

                                          Cheers Will

                                          #645980
                                          Fulmen
                                          Participant
                                            @fulmen

                                            I have never had any problems getting a full coat on the inside of the tube, but then again I have never measured the coating thickness. So I wouldn't be surprised if the internal coating ends up thinner. After all the current density will be far less on the inside. At first that doesn't matter much as the coating increases the resistance, distributing the current to any low resistance areas. But after a while the resistance stops increasing, at least in my setup it quickly stabilizes to a constant current at 20-25V.

                                            And while a constant current setup is the best I have gotten very good results by simply using 12V constant voltage.

                                            #646006
                                            bernard towers
                                            Participant
                                              @bernardtowers37738

                                              Fulmen, surely you mean depth as anodising is not adding to the material but changing it!

                                              #646007
                                              Fulmen
                                              Participant
                                                @fulmen

                                                It actually does both. It's an electrolytic oxidation, forming an porous oxide coating. IIRC the coating thickness for the typical type II anodizing is less than 30um (1mil) where 1/3 to 1/2 will be buildup.

                                                #646012
                                                Engine Doctor ( Phil )
                                                Participant
                                                  @enginedoctorphil
                                                  Posted by Fred Jolly 1 on 19/05/2023 16:27:16:

                                                  Bit late for this one but when anidising or plating something like that I use bulldog or market stall clips . Fit the handles inside the pipe and let them expand to grip the pipe . Fasten the power supply to the clip and away you go. Simple and effective.

                                                  Buldog clips are nade of steel arnt they ? When anodising the only metals in the bath should be aluminium, titanium or lead . Steel will ruin the bath. Ok for plating but not Anodising.

                                                  #646026
                                                  Andy_G
                                                  Participant
                                                    @andy_g
                                                    Posted by Bevel on 20/05/2023 13:48:47:

                                                    Say for instance we take the tube I mentioned, do I need to calculate the whole surface area for outer and inner dia's? Also when doing multiple parts do I say calculate whole area for one then times by number I intend to do in one hit?

                                                    Yes and yes

                                                    I calculate based on 6mA per square cm which is near as dammit the same as 6A / square foot. I then use a constant current power supply to maintain this. For a protective coating, I find that 1 hour is enough, or 2 hours if the anodising will by dyed. (I think that this is the same basis as the '720' rule with 13µm or 25µm thickness respectively).

                                                    I have a simple spreadsheet that I use to calculate simple parts as a combination of blocks, cylinders and discs, but it the part is drawn in CAD, I can get the surface area reported from it.

                                                    Note that I quite often require >20 volts to maintain the required current. (This is with sodium bisulphate rather than sulphuric acid, but I don't think that should make any difference – the chemistry is the same.). A warmer bath needs less volts, but I've had rough looking coatings if the bath warms up too much. I don't bother with agitation, but then I'm not chasing any sort of specification.

                                                    I clean the parts using fairy liquid and Scotchbrite under running tap water. I avoid them drying out between final cleaning and anodising by keeping them submerged in tap water. They have a quick dip in dilute sodium hydroxide (2% solution for 1-2 minutes – long enough for them to be covered in fine, white bubbles), then a rinse with DI water from a spray bottle, and into the anodising bath. They get another spray rinse when they come out, and I seal in almost boiling tap water for ~20 minutes.

                                                    I have been pleasantly surprised by the predictability and consistency of the results. It's a lovely way to tidy up aluminium parts.

                                                    #646027
                                                    Fulmen
                                                    Participant
                                                      @fulmen

                                                      Posted by Andy_G on 20/05/2023 23:43:28:

                                                      I've had rough looking coatings if the bath warms up too much.

                                                      This is a very important aspect that is seldom mentioned. Some sort of temperature control is required for best results. I've had baths heat up so much it just ate the part without forming any coating.

                                                    Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 30 total)
                                                    • Please log in to reply to this topic. Registering is free and easy using the links on the menu at the top of this page.

                                                    Advert

                                                    Latest Replies

                                                    Home Forums General Questions Topics

                                                    Viewing 25 topics - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)
                                                    Viewing 25 topics - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)

                                                    View full reply list.

                                                    Advert

                                                    Newsletter Sign-up