VFD – Where lies the problem

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VFD – Where lies the problem

This topic has 23 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 14 May 2023 at 15:51 by Lynne.

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21 April 2023 at 15:46 #642155
Lynne
Participant
@lynne
I have an Invertec Optidrive E3 vfd, and it has been driving my mill for just over 2 years now.The motor shaft on the mill driving the pulley suffered serious damage recently. The drive was through a grub screw(I know not good) & I had ignored the occasional noises coming from the vicinity of the motor. I had to remove the armature to clean up the shaft, & fabricate a better drive to the pulley. The motor is now back on the mill & connected to the vfd. I have gone through the parameter settings, & there are three mometry switches controlling Fwd,Reverse & stop & a 10k 10 turn potentiometer. The problem I am now experiencing is that on the default frequency of 50Hz & the pot on max, the vfd shows 1.6Hz and the motor revs are low, somewhere about 20 to 30 revs. If I change the po1 setting to 500Hz which is the max setting,the vfd shows 16.6Hz the motor turns faster but is not a usable speed. The pot does reduce the speed, which suggests to me it is ok. So what do people think is the motor on its way out, or does the fault lie with the vfd, though no fault code has ever been displayed. I would appreciate your thoughts. Regards Lynne
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21 April 2023 at 15:46 #29147
Lynne
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@lynne
21 April 2023 at 16:01 #642157
David Jupp
Participant
@davidjupp51506
If it was working OK previously, first question is what has changed? Could any of the wiring have been connected differently to how it was previously connected – either to motor or to controls? Any loose wires?

Could the VFD be in 'jog' mode?

Is motor free to rotate by hand without undue friction?

You may have been unlucky and a VFD fault occurred whist motor was removed, but I'd first check for anything that might have been changed unintentionally whilst working on the motor.
21 April 2023 at 16:02 #642158
noel shelley
Participant
@noelshelley55608
Has the unit lost it's parameters and needs re setting ? 16.6 Hz is one third of 50Hz ! Lost 2 phases ? Noel.
21 April 2023 at 18:37 #642170
Dave Shield 1
Participant
@daveshield1
Oh Dear – 2 phases down it is not going to even move
21 April 2023 at 19:47 #642176
Robert Atkinson 2
Participant
@robertatkinson2
Loss of a phase won't affect the frequency.

Sounds like a configuration issue. If a record was kept of the settings required it is best to do a full factory reset and re-enter them all.
Just re-entering or checking may not help because it could be a different setting or even one which is un-documanted.

Robert.
21 April 2023 at 20:52 #642180
old mart
Participant
@oldmart
Re setting, as Robert advises will be a good start, and I checked The Inverter Drive Supermarket and there is one of their "quick start guides" for this model which tells you how to reset the inverter. The original manufacturers manual is also there and both can be printed out. As for the pulley on the motor, my fix was two grub screws fitting into the milled down key. A reinforcing sleeve was pressed onto the pulley to allow longer threads for the grubscrews.

**LINK**

Edited By old mart on 21/04/2023 20:57:58
23 April 2023 at 15:30 #642345
Lynne
Participant
@lynne
My thanks to all who have responded to my post. When I installed the vfd I did use the Inverter Drives set up parameters & as i said in post it has been working fine for two & a half years. After the pulley trauma I did check the vfd parameter settings, & they were all over the place, but at this point repair of the shaft was my priority. The wiring to the motor was only removed at the vfd & I don't think that the phases are connected to the vfd in any particular order, only to reverse two phases if the direction is not correct. The switches are wired correctly as they work fine. I did reset the defaults to the factory settings & then followed the Inverter Drives parameter set up chart. I do have access to mains 3 phase but it means removing the motor & transporting it elswhere, but at least that will prove out the motor. OLD MART. Thanks for posting the pictures & link. I am still using the one grub which locates onto an area of flat on the shaft, & I will up this to two. I like the key, but I do not have a big dia of shaft to play with. No one has suggested that the vfd is faulty, & , if it is faultyI am reluctant to shell out on a new vfd two and a half years is poor. I still have the original motor, & I did'nt ditch the belt system. Regards, Lynne
23 April 2023 at 15:42 #642348
old mart
Participant
@oldmart
If you have a multimeter, you could check out the motor wiring for continuity, equal resistance between phases and for any short to earth.
25 April 2023 at 08:14 #642516
John Doe 2
Participant
@johndoe2
Personally, I doubt that the VFD has gone bang – unless you shorted its output while it was still switched on. It sounds to me that when going through the settings, you accidentally changed a parameter somewhere. For example; output frequency range?

Or disturbed the motor brushes or reassembled the motor incorrectly maybe? Does the shaft spin freely by hand?
25 April 2023 at 12:07 #642548
Lynne
Participant
@lynne
Old Mart. Thanks or the suggestion to check out the motor phases using a meter. Why did'nt I think of that, it just shows that I am not switched on electrically.

john Doe2 I did put the vfd back to the factory settings,so I think anything along the lines you suggested should have been resolved. No motor brushes, & the motor spins freely. I will double check the default settings that I have entered using the the Inverter Drives guide sheet. Regards, Lynne
25 April 2023 at 13:16 #642552
Anonymous
A picture of the motor plate would be helpful. The original post mentions an armature, which implies a DC motor. But a later post says no brushes. Is the motor brushless DC or induction?

Andrew
25 April 2023 at 13:51 #642557
Emgee
Participant
@emgee
Andrew,

Perhaps Lynne has misnamed the rotor, using a VFD seems like a 3 phase AC induction motor.

Emgee
25 April 2023 at 16:01 #642565
Anonymous
Posted by Emgee on 25/04/2023 13:51:15:

….using a VFD seems like a 3 phase AC induction motor.

That would be a sensible assumption. But I learnt long ago that the key to solving problems is not to make assumptions but is to verify facts. Hence the question about the motor type.

Andrew
25 April 2023 at 16:41 #642569
Lynne
Participant
@lynne
Sorry, I clearly do not know the difference between rotor & armature. There is a picture of the motor name plate in my albums under the heading RDM 350. I have tried inserting this into this post but have failed.I got as far as looking for 'insert', but where is it?. I guess there are explict instructions somwhere. Lynne
25 April 2023 at 16:52 #642571
Anonymous
Posted by Lynne on 25/04/2023 16:41:23:

…picture of the motor name plate in my albums…

Thank you, that confirms that the motor is 3-phase induction. Although a pain it would be worthwhile connecting the motor to a proper 3-phase supply to eliminate any issues with the motor. The motor will need to be connected in star for connection to the 3-phase supply, and then back to delta for connection to the VFD.

Andrew
25 April 2023 at 17:18 #642574
Robert Atkinson 2
Participant
@robertatkinson2
The photo is of a 3 phase induction motor.

The described fault is not a motor issue and is unlikely to be a gross fault in the VFD.
Can you measure tha voltage across the 10 turn pot (CW and CCW terminals) It should be10V DC. I think it is most likely that the pot or it'a wiring is at fault. If the voltage across the pot is corrrect measure between the CCW and wiper terminals with the pot set to 50% and 100%.
Check again at the VFD terminals (7 is 0V / CCW, 6 is input / wiper, 5 is +10V CW). Be VERY CAREFUL measuring on the VFD terminals. Some may have hundreds of volts on them,. This may be present for several minutes after you turn it off.

Alternatively set the speed from the control panel rather than using the potentiometer (analog) input and see what it does.
If you tell us the full model / part number of the VFD I'll check the manual, but it looks like you have to change P12 to 2 to enable the control panel.

To go back to the pot Set P12 to 0 and P15 to zero.

Also check:
P16 = U0-10
P35 = 100%
P39 = 0

Robert.

Edited By Robert Atkinson 2 on 25/04/2023 17:18:48

Edited By Robert Atkinson 2 on 25/04/2023 17:24:05
25 April 2023 at 19:41 #642585
Grindstone Cowboy
Participant
@grindstonecowboy
Since nobody else has, how to post photos is here.

Rob

Links to https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=103028&p=1
26 April 2023 at 12:23 #642666
Lynne
Participant
@lynne
Thanks to you all for the replys.

Robert Atkinson. The vfd description is:- Invertec Optidrive E3 IP20 -0.75kW 230v 1ph to 3ph AC Inverter drive.

pt no. ODE-3-120043-IF12 Thanks also for the detailed test routine to check out the pot. Very useful for me.

Not able to check it out today, but will get back with results SAP. Regards, Lynne
28 April 2023 at 22:32 #643002
Lynne
Participant
@lynne
Hi Robert, voltage across the pot terminals cw-ccw is 10v. The voltage between ccw & wiper terminals is 50% 5v & 100%10v. Have checked P16, 35 &39, & they are ok. Lynne.
29 April 2023 at 11:43 #643058
Robert Atkinson 2
Participant
@robertatkinson2
Hi,

So the Pot is OK

Have you tried setting P12 to 2 and entering a percentage speed from the front panel?

P01 needs to go bck to 50Hz.

Robert.
2 May 2023 at 23:02 #643679
Lynne
Participant
@lynne
Hi Robert, sorry it's taken a few days to reply, but for a variety of reasons I have not been in the w'shop untill today.P-o1 is set to 50Hz. I set p12 to 2, but nothing happened via. keypad or remote. Have just noticed the note for p12 say's an enable signal must still be provided at the control terminals digital input 1; so I think the link is req'd between 0 & 1. I also checked the resistence of the motor phases, they all read 8.5ohms between u-v, v-w, w-u. I put new batteries in the meter as I could'nt adjust the scale to zero. Now I do not know if that is good or bad for a 0.75kw motor. I did'nt realize that the speed could be adjusted on a percentage base, I thought it was adjust Hz & the speed went up or down.I'll have a go tomorrow after fitting the link. regards Lynne
13 May 2023 at 08:05 #644991
Robert Atkinson 2
Participant
@robertatkinson2
Hi Lynne,

any update?

Robert.
14 May 2023 at 15:51 #645119
Lynne
Participant
@lynne
Hi Robert, Thank you for getting back to me. With P12 set to 2, no start stop on keypad or remote. With link in place it operates from keypad only and displays hz 1.6, A 0.9, P0.00. P12 set to 1 with link, runs in reverse only. P12 set to 0 and no link the operation is by remote switches, and no control through keypad. Displays are, hx1.6, A0.9, P0.00. The hz of 1.6 is on the pot max, and the pot reduces the hz to a min. of 0.1 The puzzling thing is that the display also shows 50 which can be reduced to 3 by turning the pot a/cw. If I up P1 to 200hz the motor rotates faster and the displays are hz 66, A 1.5, P0.02.

I am beginning to think that whilst the inverter is 99% ok, the hz control aspect is not. What do you think of the phase resistance readings?. I am not a 100% sure how to go about it; links in place or removed.

Regards Lynne
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