Warco WM18 – which Nema 34 for Z axis

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Warco WM18 – which Nema 34 for Z axis

Home Forums General Questions Warco WM18 – which Nema 34 for Z axis

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 42 total)
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  • #640202
    petro1head
    Participant
      @petro1head

      Not for CNC, just to powerfeed the Z axis running std screws

      Most reccomend a Nema 34 but was wondering which one. Hopefully someone who has done this can advise

      I am looking at THIS one?

      Edited By petro1head on 05/04/2023 07:23:48

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      #29122
      petro1head
      Participant
        @petro1head
        #640205
        John Haine
        Participant
          @johnhaine32865

          You need to measure how much torque is needed to turn the handwheel and choose accordingly, allowing for any gearing you put in as well.

          #640207
          petro1head
          Participant
            @petro1head

            not sure how i would measure that

            I was hoping for someone who has done the conversion just to tell me which motor to use

            #640212
            John Haine
            Participant
              @johnhaine32865

              Apply force to handwheel via a spring balance.

              #640213
              Martin Connelly
              Participant
                @martinconnelly55370

                You can buy in line speed reduction gearboxes for most standard stepper motor sizes. If you buy a stepper that turns out to be underpowered then adding a gearbox is a relatively minor mod that will increase the available torque at the expense of speed. I would not think speed is that important for raising and lowering the Z axis.

                Martin C

                #640214
                Engine Builder
                Participant
                  @enginebuilder
                  #640217
                  not done it yet
                  Participant
                    @notdoneityet

                    The small Raglan mill is delightfully light to use, both traversing and raising the knee. But I think raising the head on a wm18 might need a bit more oomph than traversing the table on the little Raglan.

                    At least the head is a fairly constant weight, not like raising s table with a heavy item loaded onto it.

                    I think I would investigate the assister rams, to lighten the load, before deciding on the size of the motor required.

                    #640221
                    petro1head
                    Participant
                      @petro1head
                      Posted by not done it yet on 05/04/2023 09:02:13:

                      The small Raglan mill is delightfully light to use, both traversing and raising the knee. But I think raising the head on a wm18 might need a bit more oomph than traversing the table on the little Raglan.

                      At least the head is a fairly constant weight, not like raising s table with a heavy item loaded onto it.

                      I think I would investigate the assister rams, to lighten the load, before deciding on the size of the motor required.

                      The power feed on the Ragain is you an X axis which is a lot easier to power than as Z axis as you say.

                      The WM18 already has a gas ram on the Z axis

                      #640223
                      petro1head
                      Participant
                        @petro1head

                        A bit more info.

                        I currently have a Nema 23 on the Z axis but it often stalls as higher speed so my thought were to replace the Z power feed with a Nema 34 and use the Nema 23 for the Y axis which is a project I am currently working on.

                        #640225
                        John Hinkley
                        Participant
                          @johnhinkley26699

                          Your forum pseudonym suggest you are into cars etc, so maybe you have a torque wrench that you could attach to the Z-axis wheel by some means. Start off at a low torque setting and gradually increase the torque until it "clicks" or read directly if it's the bendy bar type and then I would add 50% for luck and aim to get a stepper motor that will supply near that figure. I have nothing to back up this method, it's just the way I would approach the problem in your position.

                          John

                          #640229
                          JasonB
                          Moderator
                            @jasonb

                            What torque rating is your current Nema 23, may be easier to just get one with higher torque which should fit the existing installation rather than make up new brackets etc for alarger 34

                            #640232
                            petro1head
                            Participant
                              @petro1head

                              Its 3Nm and the highest Nm one in the 23 series

                              As i will one for the Y axis project, i will use the current Nema 23 for Y and a new one, probably a 34 for the Z

                              #640234
                              JasonB
                              Moderator
                                @jasonb

                                You can get them upto 4.5Nm, that is what CNC4You use on their conversions of the WM18

                                I've got 6Nm on the KX-3 but may be larger

                                Edited By JasonB on 05/04/2023 10:50:17

                                #640236
                                petro1head
                                Participant
                                  @petro1head

                                  Ah right, i use stepperonline and they only go to 3Nm, hence why i thought 3 was the highest

                                  However looking at that 4.5Nm stepper motor its going to make it more expensive going that route, about £120 with the driver. They also dont show what the torque curve is, i have emailed them tho

                                  #640237
                                  petro1head
                                  Participant
                                    @petro1head

                                    PS, i found my old thread when i did the Z axis conversion and Joseph Noci 1 did suggest i may need a Nema 34

                                    This is my Y axis project, i am using an old stepper for sizing etc

                                    y axis.jpeg

                                    Edited By petro1head on 05/04/2023 11:44:18

                                    #640239
                                    Rydda
                                    Participant
                                      @rydda

                                      Have you checked the Clough42 video from Oct24 2018 ( https://youtu.be/1vnn_5tAmnM ) ?

                                      #640241
                                      petro1head
                                      Participant
                                        @petro1head
                                        Posted by Rydda on 05/04/2023 12:20:38:

                                        Have you checked the Clough42 video from Oct24 2018 ( https://youtu.be/1vnn_5tAmnM ) ?

                                        I have but he does not say which Nema 34 he used, so i asked the question, thanks. I also contacted the company he got the kit from but as yet no reply

                                        #640242
                                        Rydda
                                        Participant
                                          @rydda

                                          FWIW Clough42 mentions in the commentary that his motor had about 8Nm of torque. The motor you showed was one size larger with 12Nm of torque, so I assumed it would be more than sufficient.

                                          #640243
                                          petro1head
                                          Participant
                                            @petro1head
                                            Posted by Rydda on 05/04/2023 12:37:19:

                                            FWIW Clough42 mentions in the commentary that his motor had about 8Nm of torque. The motor you showed was one size larger with 12Nm of torque, so I assumed it would be more than sufficient.

                                            Thats a valid point, thanks

                                            PS lookingvat his vid again i think he uses THIS Nema 34.  Not sure why it costs more tho

                                            Edited By petro1head on 05/04/2023 12:59:14

                                            #640245
                                            JasonB
                                            Moderator
                                              @jasonb

                                              Careful that last link is Ncm, not Nm though the have the lbsin rightright for Nm

                                              #640250
                                              petro1head
                                              Participant
                                                @petro1head

                                                Its a typo, 1204 oz.in = 8.5 Nm

                                                #640260
                                                Martin Connelly
                                                Participant
                                                  @martinconnelly55370

                                                  A 10:1 gearbox will take your 3Nm torque close to 30Nm torque (some friction losses) and will cost about £60. This is a cheaper option than a new motor and driver and will out perform just about any stepper motor without a gearbox. It is certainly something that should be considered when speed of operation is not a factor you need to consider but raising some weight is. I use this combination on my mill for raising/lowering the spindle without any spring or gas pressure assist.

                                                  Martin C

                                                  #640261
                                                  SillyOldDuffer
                                                  Moderator
                                                    @sillyoldduffer
                                                    Posted by petro1head on 05/04/2023 07:01:05:

                                                    Not for CNC, just to powerfeed the Z axis running std screws

                                                    Most reccomend a Nema 34 but was wondering which one. Hopefully someone who has done this can advise

                                                    I am looking at THIS one?

                                                    I just put a torque wrench on my WM18 and lifting the head takes less than 20Nm. Unfortunately that's the minimum torque my wrench can measure so the answer isn't conclusive. A 12Nm Nema 34 is definitely in the right ball-park, but an 8Nm uncertainty is a shade more than I would care to risk £70 on.

                                                    I'll have a think about how to measure the torque needed from first principles. I'll have to bodge something because I don't have a suitable spring gauge or a set of weights.

                                                    An alternative is to fit a gearbox to the motor, like this NEMA 17 example on Amazon:

                                                    With a 1:5.18 ratio, the gearbox would deliver 23.21Nm from a 4.5Nm NEMA17 motor – more than enough to lift mu WM18's head. It would take 5 times longer to lift the motor though! May be acceptable. The stepper will probably turn at 200rpm without bother, and a 5:1 gearbox would spin the Z hand-wheel at about 40rpm, which is a comfortably moderate manual turning rate. 400 or 500 rpm from the motor isn't inconceivable, and 80rpm on the hand-wheel is a fairly quick manual turning rate.

                                                    Also possible to buy stepper motors with built-in gearboxes.

                                                    Dave

                                                    #640262
                                                    petro1head
                                                    Participant
                                                      @petro1head

                                                      As i will need a new motor to finish the Y axis project its not a problem buying a new one Martin,

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