Machining hardened shaper tool holder

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Machining hardened shaper tool holder

Home Forums General Questions Machining hardened shaper tool holder

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  • #634843
    Ivan Schuch
    Participant
      @ivanschuch53451

      I under estimated the size of this tool holder when buying it online and have to remove 2mm off 3 sides to make it fit in a lantern tool post. It has “hardened” stamped on the shank and a HSS end mill was ruined trying to macine it. Will a carbide cutter suffice or should I try to anneal it? Any help will be appreciated.

      4a0e7f94-8399-4642-a23d-16040697eb58.jpeg

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      #29055
      Ivan Schuch
      Participant
        @ivanschuch53451
        #634852
        John Hinkley
        Participant
          @johnhinkley26699

          Ivan,

          If it fits together as I assume it does from your photo, I think I'd be inclined to fashion a new holder from fresh material that was easier to work. I can't see, from limited experience using my small shaper that it needs to be hardened to the degree that yours appears to be, unless its intended use is towards the industrial end of the work envelope.

          John

          #634855
          not done it yet
          Participant
            @notdoneityet

            ‘Hardened’ could mean surface- or through- hardened.

            Carbide would suffice – little doubt of that.

            Your choice obviously but removing 4 mm from the shank may be a fair percentage of the holder or not much, dependent on its present dimensions.

            While a useful-looking cutter holder, I might wonder if it is really of appropriate size for a “baby” lathe.

            #634858
            Dave Wootton
            Participant
              @davewootton

              I've just machined 1.5mm off the bottom of a couple of hard Sandvik lathe toolholders using a replaceable carbide tip face mill, one of the Arc ones, no problem at all. Very hot blue chips though so wear your safety glasses!. Surprisingly good finish as well, I've also done similar with a Glanze face mill from Chronos, did the job ok but the finish was not as good, the Glanze inserts never seem to be up to much, I now buy alternatives from Ebay that cut much better.

              Dave

              #634859
              Rik Shaw
              Participant
                @rikshaw

                I had the same problem with an old shaper tool. I reduced it in size to fit my shaper with a an indexable tipped tool. Very deep case hardening but Alba did the trick – here:

                https://youtu.be/-9X7HnZ-HB8

                #634860
                Clive Foster
                Participant
                  @clivefoster55965

                  Sacrifice a little bit at the end with an angle grinder to see if it's all hard or just case hardened. I'd make some angles 4 or 5 mm long to expose the core and try it with a file or hacksaw to verify whether it's hard or not. need to take the corners of the angles out too to expose the core.

                  From what I've seen the base material is generally pretty obdurate an any serious hardening is concentrated on the top where the holding bolt goes. Base material is still tough enough to give an end mill a hard time. I find my Elliot 10M shaper does better.

                  A good carbide end mill should handle it just fine. If the angled cut test mentioned above shows it is case hardened starting the cut where the softer material shows will give the cutter an easier time.

                  Clive

                  #634864
                  Dave Halford
                  Participant
                    @davehalford22513

                    I suspect you should have bought one of the Armstrong pattern tool holders that come in various sizes and were made for Lantern posts, they were all forged and very hard as well + they don't need the silly boat to set the tool height.

                    Be aware that the Lantern post is also through hardened.

                    #634869
                    Nigel McBurney 1
                    Participant
                      @nigelmcburney1

                      Grind off thee faces with an angle grinder,just leave hardened and flat the face that locates in the lantern toolpost,a grinder disc is far cheaper than ruined carbide cutters.

                      #635114
                      Ivan Schuch
                      Participant
                        @ivanschuch53451

                        Thank you all for the replies.

                        I am leaning towards first grinding the end to see how deep it is hardened. I have measured again and need to reduce the shank from 24 to 20mm in the cutting direction. The tool will be used on a 24” planer.

                        Tool holder detail

                        I am however unsure of the orientation of the tool in the clapper box. The square bolt pushes the cutter into the rotating boss and the nut pulls the boss against the shank.Should the tool be leading (Orientation A) or following (Orientation B) the tool holder? I ask this as I’m unsure if it is best to leave the hardened face towards the base of the lantern or towards the clamping bolt of the lantern.

                        Orientation A

                        Orientation B

                        #635123
                        RobCox
                        Participant
                          @robcox

                          Orientation B is correct but your toolbit is sloping the wrong way. You want the face of the tool approaching the work to be angled back, akin to positive rake on the top of a lathe cutting tool, as per A. In orientation A the bolt holding the tool takes the full cutting force rather than the toolholder body.

                          #635134
                          Ivan Schuch
                          Participant
                            @ivanschuch53451

                            Hi Rob,

                            in orientation B the bolt is taking the complete cutting force. The boss holding the HSS bit cannot rotate 180 degrees to reverse the slope of the toolbit as it has a pin that locates in the shank. This is visible in the image below.

                            I made a mistake in the previous post.

                            – Feed arrow is the direction of the tool attacking the material.

                            – The tool is leading the shank, not following.

                            8f10e703-780f-4310-894f-e0665cb248ed.jpeg

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