3″ Burrell build

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3″ Burrell build

This topic has 17 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 17 July 2018 at 20:40 by RRMBK.

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18 January 2014 at 14:45 #2786
Deric
Participant
@deric
Fitting the water pump
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18 January 2014 at 14:45 #141022
Deric
Participant
@deric
Is anyone building or has built the 3" Burrell to the Plastow design? My brother and I have been building this engine for the last year and up until now I/we have managed ok and made it up where there were no dimensions or wrong ones, of which there were a few.

the plans and castings are circa 1983 when they were bought secondhand.

The problem I have at the moment is fitting the water pump, the drawing dimensions are clearly wrong – or am I missing something? I have redrawn the pump, spectacle plates, eccentrics etc in ACAD and for the life of me I can't make it work. The pump clashes seriously with the second shaft tube. When I put it in different positions in CAD I get clashes with Conrod and spectacle plate and rear of piston.

I have searched the Internet and studied no end of pictures but the illusive one of the pump from directly above is just not out there. I want to know the following:-

Can anyone help with the position of the fixings for the pump or a picture of the pump from above.

Does the conrod have an offset in plan and in elevation?

Btw the pump is the original Plastow casting (picture below) there are more pictures in my albums.

if anyone can help it will be much appreciated

Best regards

Deric
18 January 2014 at 15:42 #141030
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Have a look at the Model Engines section on traction talk, several there have the same engine.

J
18 January 2014 at 18:26 #141046
Tricky
Participant
@tricky
Deric,

I have a copy of the Plastow book "The Burrell Builder Book Of Pictures" and I have scanned a photo showing the water pump position and put in an album. There is a note attached to it saying that the lower lug rests directly against the upper bearing tube.

Richard
18 January 2014 at 18:35 #141047
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
And here is one from the first 3" Burrell build I came across on TT, looks like a straight rod on plan

Edited By JasonB on 18/01/2014 18:36:09
18 January 2014 at 19:12 #141050
Deric
Participant
@deric
JasonB and Tricky, thanks both.

Tricky, have you built one of these?

Jason, can you point me towards (with a link maybe). I have registered with TT but I haven't recovered a message to activate my account. Weekend maybe? That picture is just what I want! And shows that the conrod will in fact have a set on it. The drill is pointing at the governor drive belt pulley the eccentric actually runs adjacent to the bearing a the bottom of the picture.

Regards

Deric
18 January 2014 at 19:23 #141052
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
There were some other issues with getting things lined up as you will see once you are able to view the thread

Have you also read the error list here

Edited By JasonB on 18/01/2014 19:24:49
27 January 2014 at 17:43 #141850
William Crane
Participant
@williamcrane68713
Hi Deric,

I've seen some of the pictures of your 3 inch Burrell, Its looking good. I've been considering building this model for sometime now though there are a few things concerning me. I dont know if you or anyone else could help. Apparently the drawings for this engine are supposed to be pretty bad I haven't seen the drawings myself so I can't comment but just wondered what your opinion is. I don't suppose you have any more pictures of your engine or will you upload them as you progress it would be good to see your progression.

Cheers Guys

Will
2 March 2014 at 22:50 #145772
Deric
Participant
@deric
Good evening, William,

i have put some more pictures in the Burrell album for you, I have been rather slow in updating the album. I will try to do better!

my brother and I have building this engine for about 18 months now, we live 240 miles apart so progress can be slow. Now, regarding the drawings, we have a set of the original 1970's 'dye line' pen and ink drawings. They were bought secondhand in 1983 along with a set of castings and a partial built smokebox. They gathered dust in my brother's garage until 18 mths ago when we dug them out.

I cannot vouch for the new drawings from Bridport Foundry I would hope that some of the issues have been found and rectified. The original drawings are ok for most things but we have errors, quite a few of them too, but if you don't just blindly start making bits and carefully check dimensions of of those parts connected to or in close proximity to the bit you are making you will soon start seeing the problems and can 'work around them'.

I/ we have the benefit of CAD so I draw the bits I am going to make and make sure they will fit before I start metal bashing.

best regards

Deric
3 March 2014 at 21:58 #145890
Harry Wilkes
Participant
@harrywilkes58467
I have this pic if it's of any help ! Should you need any more let me know

H
4 March 2014 at 09:14 #145927
Deric
Participant
@deric
Morning, Harry,

Thanks for you reply. What I'm looking for is a picture of the pump side on from the right and left hand sides. So that I can see the fixing bolts and the angle of the pump ram connecting rod. Also, regarding the bottom fixing bolt, where abouts is it in relation to the second shaft flange. I note that your pump ram has the connecting rod fixed at the top

l I have followed the original drawings which has the connecting rod fixed at the bottom inside the ram. I guess you have the new drawings?

if you can help with another couple of pictures it will be much appreciated

regards

Deric
4 March 2014 at 18:19 #145975
Harry Wilkes
Participant
@harrywilkes58467
Hi Deric

I have added several more photos to the Burrell album hope they are of use to you, the new pump drawing show the con rod at the end of the ram, also the con rod as a .250" set in it and one more bit of info that may help you the top fixing hole for the my pump is approx 1" from the top of the horn plate and .500" in from the edge. I also checked my drawing and the pump fixing holes are not shown ! If I can be of further help let me know.

Cheers H
5 March 2014 at 08:12 #146011
Deric
Participant
@deric
Morning, Harry,

that was most useful, thank you very much. You pump is obviously not of the castings and we were wondering if you had fabricated it? It looks like you have had it off to modify it, what was reason for that?

we are back in the workshop today and are going to have go at that pump and get it fixed on the hornplate. I'll put some pictures in my album later.

Deric
5 March 2014 at 09:01 #146014
Harry Wilkes
Participant
@harrywilkes58467
Hi I have modified the pump since I acquired the engine as it was only fitted with a 3/8" ram so I increased it to the size on the drawing. You have noted one loose screw I needed to remove the suction pipe and have not replaced it yet.

Good luck with the pump today

H
6 March 2014 at 22:40 #146247
Deric
Participant
@deric
Good evening Harry,

thank you again for your photos, they gave me the confidence to tackle my pump.

We fitted it yesterday and all went well. I have put some pictures of the progress so far in the album.

by the way what did you do to the pump? was there a problem? We noted that you have had rubber tyres fitted too.

Hope you like the pictures
7 March 2014 at 09:01 #146272
Harry Wilkes
Participant
@harrywilkes58467
Morning Deric

I'm happy to hear you got the job done, the engine when I got it struggled to maintain water level in the boiler so when I checked it out I found that the pump ram was only 3/8 and also it was fitted with two 'O' rings that were of the wrong material ! Anyway to cut the story short I bored out the jump and fitted a new ram to the size of the drawing which now works fine. The wheels well thats another story but I find it was worth getting them done.

Have fun with the rest of the build.

Cheers H
17 July 2018 at 11:40 #362607
John Bright 3
Participant
@johnbright3
Hi guys can anybody help me – I'm also building the 3 inch Burrell and struggling with the Plaistow drawings in inaccuracies and incompleteness ! I'm down in darkest Cornwall and as yet been unable to find anybody locally that can help.

On Deric's photo above there are two what I think are 6ba bots immediately above the steam head on the spectacle plate – what are these for – there is obviously something bolted to the crankshaft side – what is this can't find anything on the drawings.

Does anybody have a pipe work schematic I just don't know which pipe goes to what fitting ?

Thanks in advance
17 July 2018 at 20:40 #362699
RRMBK
Participant
@rrmbk
Hi John.

I have the same engine and share your frustration with the very poor standard of the drawings ! My steam manifold ( steam head ) is fitted with two bolts into the manifold which then pass through the spectacle plate and through a square plate with 4 holes in the corners, fitted on the other( front) side of the spectacle plate. This small square plate is then anchored to the spectacle plate with the two bolts above that you can see in the pic. I'm not good with photos and computers but if this doesn,t explain it come back to me. The square plate is shown at the bottom LH corner of drwg 109, but the drawing of the steam head shows all 4 holes as being located in the manifold which is clearly impossible because the plate would then block the entry of the manifold inlet fitting from the boiler.. So basically the two lower holes in the plate match the upper holes in the manifold and the two upper holes in the plate, bolt through the spectacle plate above the manifold.

Kind regards bk.
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