Flanging tender side panels

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Flanging tender side panels

This topic has 10 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 18 December 2009 at 17:39 by GoCreate.

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3 December 2009 at 03:06 #2678
GoCreate
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@gocreate
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3 December 2009 at 03:06 #45842
GoCreate
Participant
@gocreate
Hi

I am building a 3” scale Allchin now well advanced. Not having oxy acetylene equipment I thought it would be better to buy the tender side panels and other parts ready made and flanged from a supplier, having now waited 18 months, and despite repeated phone calls, there is no sign of delivery. Now desperate I need to find away to make some progress.

My question is, is it feasible to do this work with a propane gas torch? The problem I see is that the heat needs to be very localised and heating to large am area will deform the steel plate. I will be using 2mm mild steel plate.

Any suggestions on what approach I should take to do this work would be very much appreciated.

Many Thanks

Nigel
3 December 2009 at 07:20 #45844
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
You really need to make the former from a substantial piece of MS plate, cut to profile and with the corners eased to suit the radius of the curve and another plate to clamp your tender side down flat.

There is no need to work the metal hot but as it work hardens it will need annealing, if you try to do this to just the tender side it will buckle and you will have a job getting it flat. If you keep it clamped between the steel formers but slid it out about an inch you can anneal with a propane torch and the formers will stop the heat affecting the flat area.

I did my 2″ Fowler this way though I found it easier to cut and silver solder a piece into the bottom corner rather than try and loose the metal. This is quite often done on the larger scale engines as it then means you just need to flange straight section and add the bottom corner and in your case the curve for the bunker

The site I use to host photos is down for maintanace at the moment so can’t post pics of my formers & tender but have a look at Conrads site and this and the following page

Jason
3 December 2009 at 18:49 #45854
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Photobucket is now working again, if you have a look in this album you can see the former, 30mm mild steel with a 10mm cover plate. There is also a pic of the soldered in corner near the end of the album.

Jason
4 December 2009 at 08:24 #45862
GoCreate
Participant
@gocreate
Hi Jason

Very much appreciate your very quick response, your tender construction looks very good and the photo’s are very informative. I had thought that cold working would not be an option for steel and that a red heat would be needed but you have convinced me different. From what you have shown me I now have the confidence to go head in the way you suggest. There are some pritty heavy bits of steel thier in the formers, this should be interesting. I wish I had asked ages ago.

How did you water proof the tank? I was thinking of using fibre glass matting and resin that you can get from auto shops such as Halfords, thought it would be a cleaner method than painting with liquid rubber, mind you I have plenty liquid rubber left over from fitting the tyres.

Many Thanks

Nigel

Edited By tractionengine42 on 04/12/2009 08:28:11
4 December 2009 at 17:47 #45890
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Being brass the tender was tinned with soft solder and once rivited was heated again and more solder run around the joints.

You can use a rubber like isoflex or there are several similar products for sealing petrol tanks etc that you just pour in, swill around and then empty out the excess.

Jason
10 December 2009 at 21:16 #46105
bricky
Participant
@bricky
Hello all.

Reference the flanging. I am building a 2″ Gold Medal Burell and have just finished the flanging of the tender.I made a complete internal former of the tender from hardwood,from 1″* internal dimentions and glued together in a stack.The former was shaped and I had no difficulty in flanging,the sides first and then clamping them both in place I wrapped the back over them this worked a treat.Clamping the back in place I drilled for the rivets ,the whole can be held with bolts through the rivet holes after removing timber for the nuts.

All of the drilling was carried out with the tender on the former.

Francis
13 December 2009 at 04:03 #46157
GoCreate
Participant
@gocreate
Hi Francis

Thankyou for your posting, very interesting approach. Where you using brass or steel for your tender? Did you anneal the material through out the formimg process? How did this work out using a hardwood former?

I have already ordered some profiles from a local company as suggested by Jason, I am still a little anciuos about forming the 2mm mild steel around the former so I have ordered extra mild steel sheet, what you learn from the first always means the second is better. If I live long enough to build a second engine it will be better than the first. So this flanging exercise is my xmas project, i hope to have a happy xmas.

Nigel
17 December 2009 at 22:30 #46361
bricky
Participant
@bricky
Hello Nigel

My tender is of brass and I did have to anneal it several times.

I found that making the former square on the hornplate end and the top,these form a datum for setting out on a surface plate or glass.I made the former higher than the top of the tender and added the amount onto all measurements.You can clamp sides and back onto the former for all the drilling operations.I have found this method to be satisfactory for me .

I hope this helps.

Francis
18 December 2009 at 12:15 #46378
Circlip
Participant
@circlip
Nigel et al, DON’T use plastic resins to try to seal the tanks. If Steel the surface will rust and the fibreglass will peel (JUST like it does when repairing holes in car panels). It’s good for making original items like boat hulls and complete panels, but an absolute b*tch for “Patching” things.

Thought about having the finished assembly Galvanised?? (Hot Zinc dipped) Check with the Yelling Pages.

Regards Ian.
18 December 2009 at 17:39 #46384
GoCreate
Participant
@gocreate
Hi Ian

Thanks do much for your post, I had not thought that the resin could peel off but now it seems logical that it might. I have plenty Isoflex liquid rubber and primmer left over from fitting the rubber tyres so I will probably use that. Another person did mention Isoflex.

Not sure that hot dip galvanising will be good for getting a flat and pristine paint finish on the external surfaces. Maybe a spray galvanising or something.

As a matter of interest ;I collected my profiles and plate material today, so this week end I make a start, first job is to radius the former. I supplied a dxf file which the profile company had no problems using, I had imagined that I would need to do alot of work cleaning up the former edges but they are very smooth and even , I hardly need to do anything, A lot different from what I remember when I was working in a workshop 30 years ago.

Thanks again

Nigel
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