Reverse Sewing Machine Motor?

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Reverse Sewing Machine Motor?

This topic has 34 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 6 December 2020 at 00:00 by duncan webster 1.

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10 January 2019 at 17:03 #390371
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
I've just had a telephone query about how to reverse a sewing machine motor.

The issue is that the Ricca motor (YM260A-9) originally used by GHT for his pillar tool is no longer available, but plenty of people have had success using sewing machine motors with variable speed foot switches.

The down side is that these require a crossed belt for a neat installation.

The question I was asked is, are these motors easily reversible and if so, how, which would allow the use of a toothed or poly-v belt?

I am sure a source for the original motor would also be of interest.

Neil

<edit> it seems the original motor 'number' is actually for a 1960s Singer sewing machine.

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 10/01/2019 17:04:21
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10 January 2019 at 17:03 #26391
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
10 January 2019 at 17:17 #390375
Joseph Noci 1
Participant
@josephnoci1
Yes, reverse either the connections to the rotor ( brushes) OR the end connections to the field coil, as per any universal motor.

Joe
10 January 2019 at 17:40 #390380
Keith Long
Participant
@keithlong89920
Most likely NOT reversible from experience. The motor that I bought in the last 3 years or so has offset brushes so is optimised for single direction operation. Also to get at the connections for the brushes or the coil would have needed some serious surgery to moulded plastic parts. The motors are sold as unidirectional but you can get either clockwise or anti clockwise versions. I sourced my motor from a sewing machine and spares supplier via EBay and bought the uprated (100 watt) version rather than the normal 60/70 watt type.
11 January 2019 at 12:42 #390519
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
If anyone wants a sewing machine motor, with speed control pedal, PM me for how to come and collect from East Anglia.

Howard
27 June 2020 at 22:18 #482601
Gerard Beattie
Participant
@gerardbeattie11269
I have a SEIG nano lathe with a sewing machine motor. The bushings went in the motor so I got a replacement motor , but the replacement motor was rorating in the wrong direction. So after trying to reverese the direction of the motor I got the idea to flip the motor over on its axis and the motor spins in the correct direction. The only problem with this method is that the motor had to be mounted out the side of the lathe,and I had to modify the mounting bracket , but it worked for me.This method might not work for everyone. If you do not understand what I mean by flipping over the motor I can post a photo the motor flipped over.
28 June 2020 at 07:20 #482621
Hopper
Participant
@hopper
GHT and co used sewing machine motors because thats all that was available. These days you are better off to search on Aliexpress for machine spindle, cnc router motor etc and a matching motor controller with reverse. This automation stuff is so commonly used in industry in China that prices are stupid cheap. You can have infinitely variable speed with reversing for the price of a couple of beers.
28 June 2020 at 10:00 #482648
Dave Halford
Participant
@davehalford22513
Posted by Keith Long on 10/01/2019 17:40:39:

Most likely NOT reversible from experience. The motor that I bought in the last 3 years or so has offset brushes so is optimised for single direction operation. Also to get at the connections for the brushes or the coil would have needed some serious surgery to moulded plastic parts. The motors are sold as unidirectional but you can get either clockwise or anti clockwise versions. I sourced my motor from a sewing machine and spares supplier via EBay and bought the uprated (100 watt) version rather than the normal 60/70 watt type.

Wonder if all they do is turn the brush carrier around? I have a 1/4hp brushed motor from the Great War that reverses by rotating the brush carrier.
28 June 2020 at 10:09 #482653
Roderick Jenkins
Participant
@roderickjenkins93242
These guys supply 120W motors that run in a clockwise direction **LINK**. I use one to drive a milling spindle

My solution to driving the pillar tool drill was a cheap grinder with the stones removed

Now I have my tool post milling spindle I may well transfer the sewing machine motor to the Pillar tool for a more compact set up

Stay well,

Rod
28 June 2020 at 10:53 #482658
Bazyle
Participant
@bazyle
Good grief that workshop is clean! But I like the idea of using a grinder motor for certain things as they are sealed, though that makes for a cooling problem in some instances.
28 June 2020 at 11:14 #482666
Cornish Jack
Participant
@cornishjack
Recently had the same problem but realised that mounting options were the answer.

With the preferred direct drive vertical mounting, the rotation was wrong, but by mounting the motor horizontally and driving via jockey pulleys, the spindle output was correct. Don't have piccies at the moment but can produce if wished.

rgds

Bill
4 December 2020 at 10:24 #511548
Buffer
Participant
@buffer
Hi

I have just finished a George Thomas Pillar Tool and like a complete idiot I never gave a moments notice to the direction of the motor until I found my drill going backwards that is! After much swearing I have looked online to try and find out how to reverse it. I have seen that it can be done and it seems to be the case that just moving one connection will do it. My question is does anyone know if its done in the foot switch or in the motor? I did try swapping the blue and brown under the motor cover and no surprise it didn't do it.

So if there's anyone or a few of you who find this stuff easy I would really appreciate the advice.

Thanks

These are the two wires that go to the motor however it is connected to the foot switch by a 3 pin plug.

Inside the foot switch showing the brown and blue that go up to the motor.

Edited By Buffer on 04/12/2020 10:25:00
4 December 2020 at 10:57 #511561
Keith Long
Participant
@keithlong89920
Hi Buffer – to reverse that motor you'll need to do it inside the motor – and you probably won't be able to get at the connections inside without destroying the motor, as everything seem to be moulded in – been there and gave up when I realised what I'd need to do! If you can access the brushes there is a good chance that you'll find that they are offset to favour the running direction so they won't be at all happy if you do manage to reverse the motor. Sewing machine motors of that type are generally built for single direction rotation and are sold as being set for clockwise or anti-clockwise rotation. Y

Your options would seem to be buy another motor that goes the way you want or re-jig the motor mountings so that you get the rotation that you need on the spindle. If you mount the motor slightly skewed then you can just use a crossed drive belt to get the rotation direction that you want. That would also give you the option of bi-directional rotation if you ever need it.

Don't believe everything that see on the internet, I think older motors CAN be dismantled and reversed but the newer ones are made using modern techniques and materials to keep the price down. Reverse on a sewing machine is a mechanical operation to keep the timing right through the needle shuttle interaction, rather than just driving the whole machine backwards.

Edited By Keith Long on 04/12/2020 11:03:44

Edited By Keith Long on 04/12/2020 11:04:57
4 December 2020 at 11:48 #511582
Les Jones 1
Participant
@lesjones1
If you can open the motor it should be possible to reverse it. The mains is fed to one end of each field winding. the other end of each field winding is connected to one of the brush holders. To reverse it you need to swap over the connections between the field windings and brushes. This will probably involve extending the wires from the field windings to reach the opposite brush holder. It is possible that there are also small RF chokes and capacitors fitted inside the motor to reduce interference. If this is the case you will probably have to post pictures of the inside of the motor so we can tell you if this has any bearing on the way you swap over the connections.

Les.
4 December 2020 at 12:03 #511587
John Hinkley
Participant
@johnhinkley26699
If you follow Roderick Jenkin's link, the wording of the advert. suggests that they will supply motors giving either rotational direction. Might be worth further investigation if it proves too difficult or too daunting to delve into the inside and re-knitting the wiring. Tried that a few years ago and gave up!

John

Edited to alter gobbledegook into something approaching English

Edited By John Hinkley on 04/12/2020 12:05:12

Edited By John Hinkley on 04/12/2020 12:05:34
4 December 2020 at 13:49 #511612
Buffer
Participant
@buffer
Thanks guys. I have just phoned up the supplier Beds sewing and knitting and they have a reverse direction motor same type for an extra tenner, I'm picking it up on the school run.

Regards

Rich.
4 December 2020 at 19:15 #511680
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
If the motor has brushes, another method springs to mind.

Insert a suitably rated (in terms of voltage and current ) bridge rectifier followed by a double pole changeover switch. In this way the motor will be fed DC and the changeover switch, correctly wired will provide the facility to reverse the direction of rotation.

Howard
4 December 2020 at 20:04 #511694
John Haine
Participant
@johnhaine32865
Howard, unfortunately not. When you reverse the voltage you reverse the current in both armature and stator. After all it runs on ac when the voltage is reversing 50 times a second.
4 December 2020 at 20:15 #511696
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
A motor with brushes is often referred to as a universal motor, because it will run on either AC or DC.

As a small boy I found that reversing the DC connections made the series wound motor for my construction set reverse.

Howard
4 December 2020 at 20:28 #511701
Peter Spink
Participant
@peterspink21088
Coincidentally I'm in the process of repurposing a Makita laminate edge trimmer for the same reason. Had to dismantle it to reverse the brush connections which was a 'do or die' situation but it went back together OK and now runs in the correct direction. Hopefully the cooling fans will also work in reverse but will not be in continuous use so fingers crossed. Fortunately the brushes are at right angles to the commutator on this motor so a quick rub down to take the edges off should keep them happy. The speed plate says 28000rpm (!) so I'm using a Velleman speed controller which works a treat with this type of motor and will allow it to run at a more manageable speed.
5 December 2020 at 08:05 #511741
John Haine
Participant
@johnhaine32865
Posted by Howard Lewis on 04/12/2020 20:15:10:

A motor with brushes is often referred to as a universal motor, because it will run on either AC or DC.

As a small boy I found that reversing the DC connections made the series wound motor for my construction set reverse.

Howard

Howard the motor for your set would have been a permanent magnet type, it has brushes on the rotor and a commutator but a permanent magnet to provide the stator field. A universal motor has a wound field in series with the armature so the current flows the same way in each. If you reverse the current you reverse it in both so the motor runs the same way. This obviously has to be the case if the motor is to run on ac.
5 December 2020 at 09:46 #511749
ega
Participant
@ega
Neil:

Re your OP, I didn't know that GHT himself had used a sewing machine motor for his mini drill, although I believe other builders may have done so (the sewing machine motor I bought for my own UPT is still on the shelf and, probably the wrong rotation!).

Can you point to a description of the GHT version? I should like to know whether this was implemented as an integrated unit or did the motor just sit on the base board? The advantage of the latter seems to be that the direction of rotation could be altered without getting into the motor eg by crossing the belt.

Buffer:

May we have a photo of your finished job in due course, please?
5 December 2020 at 10:55 #511764
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by ega on 05/12/2020 09:46:59:

Neil:

Re your OP, I didn't know that GHT himself had used a sewing machine motor for his mini drill, although I believe other builders may have done so (the sewing machine motor I bought for my own UPT is still on the shelf and, probably the wrong rotation!).

Can you point to a description of the GHT version? I should like to know whether this was implemented as an integrated unit or did the motor just sit on the base board? The advantage of the latter seems to be that the direction of rotation could be altered without getting into the motor eg by crossing the belt.

.

I may be able to confirm/refute that later today [need to locate the book] … but it’s worth mentioning that the part number (YM260A-9) is very widely used in Sewing Machines [so Ricca might be something of a Red Herring]

MichaelG.
5 December 2020 at 12:11 #511777
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
I did say Series wound. Eventually, I saved up enough to buy a S E L reversing switch. This had four connections, but was not what seemed obvious to two inputs at one end and output at the other.

After 70+ years I cannot recall the wiring for it, but one of the connections was made from the top LH terminal to the motor.

The motors for model railway locos are permanent magnet, so exchanging the DC feed does reverse them.

Howard
5 December 2020 at 13:08 #511788
Keith Long
Participant
@keithlong89920
It doesn't matter whether it's series or shunt wound, you still have to reverse the field in either the stator windings or the rotor relative to the other to get the reverse rotation. In the last month I've been through this exercise with a series wound dc motor (ex car fan blower) to enable reversing by just swapping the input leads. That required a full wave bridge between the rotor and stator windings to get the necessary field inversion in the stator. I believe that Taycol motors (amongst others) used a wound field and had a 2 pole reversing switch that did the necessary reconnection of either the rotor or stator winding as required.
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