ED Racer ‘times two’

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ED Racer ‘times two’

This topic has 83 replies, 24 voices, and was last updated 19 August 2012 at 10:37 by David Clark 13.

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25 February 2010 at 16:18 #49163
Ramon Wilson
Participant
@ramonwilson3
Hi,

Following on from experiencing the Nova bursting into life I thought it would be interesting to have a go a designing a diesel based around the 2.46 ED Racer of the 50’s/60’s.

I borrowed an old Mk4 from a friend and scaled it up by a factor of 1.266 which brings the capacity to approximately 5cc.

The drawings were laid out on copier paper in the traditional way – with a pencil using a piece of Contiboard as a drawing surface – ‘CAD’ drawing (Contib’d Aided Design!)

Two blocks of ally were obtained and the chipping began – 221/4 ozs. per block to start, 31/2 to finish. Quite a bit of swarf!.

I did two to hedge my bets incase of a mistake – and yes, if you are wondering -the keen eyed may spot a subtle difference but ostensibly they are both suitable for use so now the next stage can begin – Crank shafts – two piece as in The Nova as so far this has stood up well to the torque swinging a fairly large prop. These of course will rev much harder but with a smaller prop.

Some asked for some pics so here are a couple,

Rather than fill the site albums up more pics of the the machining stages can be seen here.

if you care to visit. They haven’t been captioned yet but I will at some stage.

Now, it’s time to clean up that swarf!!!

Regards – Ramon

Edited By David Clark 1 on 26/02/2010 08:05:57
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25 February 2010 at 16:18 #2262
Ramon Wilson
Participant
@ramonwilson3
25 February 2010 at 17:51 #49165
Rob Manley
Participant
@robmanley79788
Very impressed with the quality of work so far. Its always fun to cut a complex shape out of a boring solid block, It looks like a very pretty engine. Please keep us informed of progress.
25 February 2010 at 19:09 #49172
V8Eng
Participant
@v8eng
This reminds me, I have an old ED 2cc Competition Special with prop driver section broken off the crankshaft. You might have just inspired to me restore it.

Very impressed with your work so far.

Edited By V8Eng on 25/02/2010 19:17:07
25 February 2010 at 20:27 #49179
Alan Worland 1
Participant
@alanworland1
Nice work and good progress, I suppose the time it takes to setup – you might as well make more than one!

Years ago at a model engineering exhibition there was a chap who was making five 71/4 in gauge locos! He said as it took most of the time setting it all up he thought he would get the most out of it!
25 February 2010 at 21:51 #49181
LADmachining
Participant
@ladmachining
Excellent work Ramon!

Keep us posted on your progress!
27 February 2010 at 12:18 #49244
Ramon Wilson
Participant
@ramonwilson3
Thanks for your interest and kind comments.

I’m hoping to get these bead blasted soon but in the meantime will get on with the crankshafts though as perhaps you see I am a little side tracked at the moment!

Back soon with this though.

Regards – Ramon
27 February 2010 at 12:36 #49245
Speedy Builder5
Participant
@speedybuilder5
What a super engine – I had one when I was 14, comp special and Hunter 3.5 – Oh yes and an Ed Bee which was converted by ED at Molsey to be water cooled. Allways wanted a Taplin Twin – 2 x ED Hunter cylinders.

Good luck
27 March 2010 at 23:53 #50214
Ramon Wilson
Participant
@ramonwilson3
Robert – my third engine was an ED Hunter – KK Pacer – clipped the concrete and cracked the crank case all round the bearing housing . I renovated an old Taplin Twin some time ago. It was in a very poor state but once finished it totally lived up to it’s image and started so easily. I sold it on, something I really do now regret.

As suggested I thought some might like to see the latest bits tackled – the crankshafts and backplates.

The crankshafts are ‘two piece’ – the smaller 1/4″ inner shaft, turned from an 8mm caphead bolt which is Loctited into the outer. The outer, which includes the web and crankpin, is from EN24T left in the soft state. All turned between centres after Loctiting

The backplates are machined from solid and proved an interesting part to make. I’m planning on getting all the ally parts made before tackling the internals.

The images on the link have been added to to and captioned.

Hope these are of interest

Regards – Ramon
13 April 2010 at 22:42 #50678
Ramon Wilson
Participant
@ramonwilson3
Hi again,

Managed to get a bit more done over the last week or two and as a couple of you did ask to keep you up to date on progress here are a few pics of current state of play

The first two are one engine ‘mocked up’ – ‘dress rehearsal’ if you like. No bearings are fitted at this stage as the cases still require bead blasting.

And this shows the other bits to do the second one.

Pistons, liners and contra pistons are next which will just leave the comp screws needle valve assemblies and rotors to do.

Does anyone know where I can puchase a small amount of the green ‘Oilite’

oil filled nylon to machine the rotors from. Failing that I have some black ‘Nylatron’ – does anyone have any experience using this for this application? I also have some Tufnol which has been used for this part in other designs. Any thoughts?

With the spring like conditions finally here I’m afraid that other love – the garden – will have to take precedent at this time of the year but I’ll get on with the rest of it as soon as I can.

Regards for now Ramon
14 April 2010 at 10:28 #50686
LADmachining
Participant
@ladmachining
Hi Ramon,

Fantastic work! The engines are coming along very nicely!

Regarding the oil-filled nylon, a quick search on eBay brought up:-

http://tinyurl.com/y4whjgm

Should be enough to make the rotors with. The price isn’t extortionate, either.

Regards,

Anthony
14 April 2010 at 13:33 #50689
Ramon Wilson
Participant
@ramonwilson3
Thanks Anthony, I had searched but hadn’t given Ebay a thought. Piece duly ordered at very reasonable price shame it was round bar but then you can’t have everything!

Thanks again – back soon – Ramon
14 April 2010 at 21:11 #50694
duncan webster 1
Participant
@duncanwebster1
Very impressive, now all you have to do is publish details of your cross slide drilling gizmo, which looks really useful
14 April 2010 at 22:19 #50698
Alan Worland 1
Participant
@alanworland1
‘Hats off’ to you Ramon, superb looking workmanship!
15 April 2010 at 12:11 #50712
Circlip
Participant
@circlip
Many years ago (Oh, L, drag up yer zimmers), One of my design components was molded in Nylon. Part of the brief for the finished item was that it should be flexible and collecting them “Out of the mold” prooved that the darned things exhibited the flexibility of cream crackers.

“Ah” said the tecky rep, “Thats cos they’re fresh out of the mold and haven’t had time to absorb any water, in 24 Hrs they’ll feel different again, you could boil them in water to speed up the process”

Since we wanted another component to slide inside a slot molded into it, some bright spark () suggested “What about boiling them in oil??”

As it was handy, and also due to be changed, they got a bubbling in the chip pan and despite the stink, EVEN after washing and drying them, the flexibility AND the lubricicity was obvious.

I wouldn’t advocate using Flora or Vigin Olive Oil, but a standard Nylon 6 suitably “Cooked” in an appropriate lubricant may get some out of a tight squeeze (Pun intended).

Keep having to post this for re-oiling “Oilites”

Regards Ian.
15 April 2010 at 21:23 #50728
Ramon Wilson
Participant
@ramonwilson3
Thanks Ian,

Until I read of this material in Dave Parkes I/C topics in ME I was not aware of it’s existance. He recommends it for this application in his designs and I thought I would go ahead and try some. Having ordered a piece after LAD’s link (it arrived today) I have ‘googled’ it and found that it is particularly recommended for heavy loading in low RPM situations!

I’m now thinking that the design of this rotor with it’s substantial radial cutout may lead to distortion at the anticipated rpm. I will make one just to see but am thinking that I will revert to using Tufnol as this has been tried and tested in this situation.

Had a really good day at Myford’s open day today, spent to much – as you do – but very happy

Thanks for the kind comments but the drill spindle will have to wait awhile I’m afraid!

Regards – Ramon

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 15/04/2010 21:25:05
20 April 2010 at 22:46 #50962
Ramon Wilson
Participant
@ramonwilson3
Had a good session on my friend Lee’s bead blaster today and finally got the cases and backplates done along with parts from a couple of other rebuilds.

Heres how they look now

I can now build the bottom ends up though I think I will wait a bit until all the parts are made. Liners and pistons next and an attempt at that anodising.

Regards for now – Ramon
21 April 2010 at 06:47 #50966
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
They look lovely Ramon,

I can’t wait to see the finished article. I’m especially interested in your anodising results when you get round to it, and considering your skill and persistence I believe that it will be a superb job.

Regards

Terry
27 April 2010 at 22:46 #51209
Ramon Wilson
Participant
@ramonwilson3
Hi again,

Spent an interesting couple of days making the pistons and liners. As said elswhere it was decided to make one from cast iron and the other from a ‘tough steel’. The cast iron was an offcut and has an exceptionally close grain – much finer than the continuous cast bar I have. Shame there wasn’t more for the pistons. I have no idea of the steel – it came from a largish stud – 1-1/4 dia by a foot – ‘surplus to requirements’ from offshore days. Probably of American manufacture the end of the stud was neatlly marked ie engraved not punched – ‘CR 8 S 7’ Whether that relates to the grade I have no idea.



It turned reasonably well and gave a good finish just have to see how it stands up to the task now.

The cutter(s) for the ports – three were made just incase (just as well) – came from 2mm thick GFS. Heat treated and tempered light straw the first two did not stand up to the steel liner both wearing quite quickly despite low speed. This was put down more to insufficient backing off so ensured this was better on the last one and left it hard and untempered as well. Slowest possible speed and ‘Bingo’ – sailed through !

Piston material came from a slab of continuous cast bar – this was rather than waste the larger diameter round bar ‘in store’. Hit a ‘snag’ tonight when lapping the first piston to go into the liner. Just realised in time as I was beginning to think I had left rather too much on for lapping that I was trying to fit it to the wrong (and tight) end of the liner! I think I may have caught it in time, it is still quite tight at the very top of the bore but won’t really be able to tell if the compression is good enough until it’s assembled If one bore had been made slightly larger and that done first then it could have been used for the smaller – must keep that in mind ???.

Not far to go now – hope this is still of interest

Regards – Ramon
28 April 2010 at 06:57 #51212
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
Hi Ramon,

great to see your progress and hear about your problems and overcoming them. I can’t wait to see the final products. – My breath has never been so bated. In fact if you don’t get on with that anodising soon I may keel over for want of oxygen,

I have been very busy over the last week or so and haven’t had time to get out and play with my Rivers but hopefully this weekend………………

Terry
28 April 2010 at 22:18 #51233
Ramon Wilson 1
Participant
@ramonwilson1
Hi Terry

‘and there I was thinking that rap on the fingers had put you off

You might be interested in how this goes!

Had better success with the second piston today. I confess to ‘taking a shortcut’ (I know I know) last night and lapped the piston down with a very fine stone. It transpires the pistons had distorted very slightly when machining the internals and lapping that first piston to the liner revealed it’s ovality. Took the time to bore a simple piston lap today and the second is a big improvement. The first is possibly usable – it is a very tiny amount – but if it proves not to have reasonable compression it may be salvageble by ‘growing it’ with heat and re lapping – failing that its another piston. This time though I shall not finish turn the OD until after the insides!

All the parts are ready for anodising and I have all the neccesary except some green dye. Having spent some time looking I have not found anything so far that ‘fits the minds eye’. In that case it might be blue!

Regards – Ramon

PS All pics are up to date on here

Edited By David Clark 1 on 27/05/2010 16:04:36
29 April 2010 at 02:08 #51237
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
I think there is a good range of colours in the dylon fabric dye, it comes in little aluminium containers.Ian S C
29 April 2010 at 08:37 #51239
Circlip
Participant
@circlip
Try this one again, What about inkjet inks??

Regards Ian.
29 April 2010 at 09:15 #51240
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
Hi Ian,

Inkjet inks are not very stable in light and colours fade relatively quickly on exposure to normal light levels, at least when used as intended. I’m not sure about how they would react in anodising. It might be worth trying on test pieces though.

However I’ve just had a realisation though. These inks are only available in three colours and black (Magenta, cyan and yellow) All other colours are made by the mixing of these in the printer according to the instructions from the computer program. It might be a bit difficult and expensive to try to mix colours externally.

I’ve heard good reports of Dylon products used in anodising they are intended as fabric dyes and are made to be colour fast, as well as being cheap and available in a good range of colours. I don’t know where you are located Ramon but if these are not available locally I can get some to you. Just email me, but I’m sure there must be a similar product where you are.

http://www.dylon.co.uk/home.html
29 April 2010 at 11:17 #51243
Circlip
Participant
@circlip
There are two types of ink used in printers, one more colourfast than the other. As far as mixing, a few drops go a looooooooooooooooong way.

Regards Ian.
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