Case Hardening

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Case Hardening

This topic has 34 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 3 May 2011 at 23:26 by Windy.

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3 March 2011 at 16:10 #21811
Mike Gibbons
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@mikegibbons
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3 March 2011 at 16:10 #64961
Mike Gibbons
Participant
@mikegibbons
Hi All,

Can anybody help? I want to case harden a couple of small components, but Kasenite, the stuff I’ve always used to do this job, seems to have dissapeared into the “infinite” ( is it a case of “H & S” strikes yet again ? ).

I didn’t have the forethought to stock-up a life-time supply.

The only alternative I can find to Kasenite comes in a £30 tub; I just don’t want that much. So the question is: does anybody know of a supplier of small quantities of case hardening compound?

Regards, Mike.
3 March 2011 at 17:29 #64965
Keith Long
Participant
@keithlong89920
Hi

Try Chronos – it’s in their catalogue

Keith
3 March 2011 at 19:12 #64973
Tony Pratt 1
Participant
@tonypratt1
I was going to suggest Chronos until I saw the price- it’s £30 a tub

Tony
3 March 2011 at 19:43 #64976
Michael Cox 1
Participant
@michaelcox1
It is fairly easy to case harden steel simply by packing the pieces in powdered charcoal in a steel tube. If the pieces are small then simply pinch off bothe ends of the tube to exclude air. Half an hour at bright red heat gives a surface which, after quenching , is glass hard. Mixing about 10% sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) with the charcoal seems to speed up the process a little.

The active ingredient of Kasenit was sodium or potassium ferrocyanide. This is available on ebay.
3 March 2011 at 21:54 #64980
Mike Gibbons
Participant
@mikegibbons
Thanks for your replies.

Chronos was my first stop – – – but £30 a tub!!

I know about packing the components into a box with carbon-rich material, but I don’t have a good enough heat source to hold it at temperature for a relatively long time period. That’s the trouble with being retired, at work I had access to a muffle furnace.

I seem to recall hearing about ferrocyanide, but has anybody bought it and used it – – are there any problems: I think the cyanide reference makes me a little cautious – – – I also had access to chemists at work.

Regards, Mike
3 March 2011 at 22:22 #64981
Keith Long
Participant
@keithlong89920
Hi Mike

I’ve just done a quick Google search and come up with a couple of possibles for you:-

http://www.peterdyson.co.uk

&

http://www.peterdyson.co.uk

They’re both gunsmiths and do small packages of case hardening material at about £10 – £12.50. Still not cheap but better than £30.

I’m a bit shocked at the price, I’ve got a paper Chronos catalogue which lists a small pack at £13 but that doesn’t seem to show on their website, and i suppose the cat. is about 4 years old

The gunsmiths also show a lot of products for blackening, browning and blueing of steel, ali and brass. so not all effort wasted!

Keith
4 March 2011 at 00:03 #64991
AndyP
Participant
@andyp13730
My 400g tub of Case Hardening Powder from Blackgates says £10 plus coppers on the lid. Bought at Harrogate relatively recently.

It works.

Cheers, Andy
5 March 2011 at 11:48 #65030
michael bird
Participant
@michaelbird72946
hello. do all steels case harden? and if not which grade do i need. thanks.
5 March 2011 at 14:03 #65033
oilcan
Participant
@oilcan
Best not to try and case harden any exotic alloy steels, but generaly, most straight carbon steels are case hardenable. 080M15 & 130M15 arespecificaly designed for case hardening.

perhaps best to stear clear of trying to case harden free cutting steels , especialy the leaded type, although there are types of free cutting steel that are case hardenable,but cannot recall what the alloying agent is.

can highly recommend WPS 1 hardening, tempering and heat treatment by Tubal Cain.

about the only book you’ll need on the subject.
5 March 2011 at 21:04 #65052
Mike Gibbons
Participant
@mikegibbons
Hi Keith & Andy,

Thanks for the info’, Peter Dyson looks ok at £10 a bottle and I’ll send an email to Blackgates to see if they still stock it: pity you can’t find out from their web-site.

Regards, Mike
6 March 2011 at 11:16 #65071
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
Kasenit recomend its use on mild steel, and wrought iron. Also the mention its use on silver steel to obtain the ultimate in hardness. Ian S C
6 March 2011 at 12:09 #65077
KWIL
Participant
@kwil
Ian, does that mean YOU can still buy GENUINE Kasenit?
7 March 2011 at 00:48 #65121
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
Yes KWIL, last time I was at the shop where I buy my bit and pieces they had some, and I asked about it, they knew nothing of it becomming unavailable in the fore see able future, mind you that was before the last earthquake, the shop is inside the danger area, and yesterday would have been the first time the owners would have been alowed back in to have a look at their property. I was in town Saterday and Sunday, its a mess, and thats after a lot of rubbish has been cleaned up. Sept 2010 EQ they moved out 38,000 tonne of silt, this time it was 300,000 tonne. Sorry a bit OT. Ian S C
7 March 2011 at 04:35 #65129
John Olsen
Participant
@johnolsen79199
I think Kasenit did go off the market for some years, but came back on. Since I still have some of my original supply from about 25 years ago, I don’t know the exact timing of this.

regards

John
7 March 2011 at 07:24 #65131
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
last seen at George Henerys in Manchester st Christchurch, when and if they reopen I’ll have another look, and if they have some I think I’l pick up a tin, it’ll be well shaken! Ian S C
7 March 2011 at 17:37 #65149
mgj
Participant
@mgj
I was wondering why one shouldn’t try to case harden freecutting steel. I routinely case harden free cutting leaded, and it works a treat for modelling purposes. Its hard enough you won’t touch it with a file – in fact for the last couple of models I have hardend nothing else. Axles in the bearing are, pins etc.

All one is trying to do is get an excess of carbon in there on the grain boundaries. May not be as good as the smarter steels, in high tech applications, (it isn’t – fact) but its certainly good enough for our purposes.

I use Kasenit- i shared a tub with someone.
12 March 2011 at 18:46 #65391
John C
Participant
@johnc47954
Hi Mike,

If you are still looking, there is hardening compound on ebay here:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Casehardening-compound-lathe-users-/330541328716?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item4cf5cc694c#ht_500wt_1004

Sorry about the full URL; I’m using Google Chrome and the insert links tool doesn’t seem to work.

John
13 March 2011 at 08:27 #65398
KWIL
Participant
@kwil
I ask again, GENUINE Kasenit in the UK?

The advertisers have the “word” in their links but the product sold is NOT Kasenit but some other “similar” product, usually in a white pot.
13 March 2011 at 08:29 #65399
Peter Bell
Participant
@peterbell11509
Hi,

In an earlier post 080M15 & 130M15 are quoted as specificaly designed for case hardening. I googled this and it came seems that EN32 is similar?

I want to make some pinions using one of the above steels but only need a small quantity of 12mm dia. I dont seem to be able to find a supplier at the moment, can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks Peter
13 March 2011 at 09:28 #65400
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
Hi KWIL,

This company sell it. It is out of stock at the moment but they reckon it will be back in by the middle of this month. They are in Warwick, their address is in the ‘contact us’ section (link at the bottom of the screen that the link above takes you to). Worth a phone call, good price too.

Best regards

Terry
13 March 2011 at 11:18 #65405
mgj
Participant
@mgj
Peter- what exactly are you making that warrants EN32 or equivalent.

Yes, it will case harden deeper quicker, yes its a slightly better material than mild without becoming interesting/exotic, but first you have to carburise, then you have to refine at specific temeperatures.

To gain a small improvement in core strength, you are it seems to me getting into production controls to get the best out of a material which won’t be any harder in the case at the end of it all. About the only difference is that the case will be a bit deeper quicker, (useful for industry where they often grind case hardened surfaces) which for a one off(?) is not normally a great problem.

Do you need a 31 ton(f) tensile substrate after heat treatment?

West Yorkshire Steels BTW.
13 March 2011 at 13:03 #65410
Peter Bell
Participant
@peterbell11509
Hi,

It is just clock pinions but I was only following the advice given earlier in the posting—what do you suggest?

Peter
13 March 2011 at 13:16 #65411
Tony Pratt 1
Participant
@tonypratt1
Peter, I am sure mild steel will be fine for clock pinions and a lot easier to source.

Tony
13 March 2011 at 13:32 #65413
KWIL
Participant
@kwil
Thanks Terryd, I will contact them next week.

K
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