Milling Chucks

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Milling Chucks

This topic has 54 replies, 21 voices, and was last updated 10 February 2011 at 15:39 by Peter G. Shaw.

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5 January 2011 at 17:24 #61798
The Merry Miller
Participant
@themerrymiller
POSILOCK MILLING CHUCK SET

Can anybody out there cast an unbiased (or biased) opinion about the above.
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5 January 2011 at 17:24 #21775
The Merry Miller
Participant
@themerrymiller
5 January 2011 at 17:55 #61802
NJH
Participant
@njh
Hi

I’ve had one of these for some years and it’s fine. Mine is No. 3 MT with imperial collets ( I have since obtained metric collets too) and it came in a wooden box otherwise it looks identical to the one advertised. Chronos are an OK firm.

Regards

Norman
5 January 2011 at 17:56 #61803
peter walton 1
Participant
@peterwalton1
seems to be a good deal on their normal prices.

Not to sure about the quality though, a bit of pot luck!!

Peter
5 January 2011 at 18:06 #61807
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Also consider an ER collet as its more versatile, I’ve not had a cutter come out of mine.

J
5 January 2011 at 18:41 #61812
Steve Garnett
Participant
@stevegarnett62550
I acquired one of these recently, MT2, also in a box, second-hand but unused (hey, it was cheap). Although I haven’t used it yet either, it appears to be pretty well made, as Norman says. Mine has both metric and imperial collets, but also, it’s definitely a Vertex one. On Chronos’ site they list the set shown in the above link and the Vertex versions separately, even though they look identical. So, are they really?
5 January 2011 at 19:39 #61816
The Merry Miller
Participant
@themerrymiller
Jason mentions the ER collets.

I have a complete set of Myford ER25 imperial collets (genuine ones) but I would be reluctant to use milling cutters in them because of the lack of a drawbar feature.
5 January 2011 at 20:15 #61819
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
The vast majority of commercial tooling seems to come with plain shanks and they don’t seem to have problems holding the tooling which is probably pushed far harder than a hobbiest would

Just take a look at someone like J&L I would say 97% of their milling cutters are unthreaded mostly plain shank. Even the Weldon type shanks, the flat will only resist turning and large amounts of pull out.

If you wanted to use solid carbidecutters, indexable endmills, spot drills etc you would need an ER type chuck so I personally can’t see a need for both.

Jason

Edited By JasonB on 05/01/2011 20:15:53
5 January 2011 at 20:32 #61821
The Merry Miller
Participant
@themerrymiller
Point taken Jason.
5 January 2011 at 22:48 #61824
Steve Garnett
Participant
@stevegarnett62550
I’m sure Jason’s right. My original plan was to purchase a set of ER collets – I use this style at work on a middle-size mill, and I’ve never had any trouble with them slipping at all. And at some stage I almost certainly will purchase some; it’s just that the Posilock MT2 set was a real bargain…

Surely if you have a set of Myford ER25s, then all you need to use them for milling is a suitable adaptor with a drawbar? Like Arc Euro Trade’s 050-110-25530 ER25/MT2 Milling Collet Chuck which can take an M10 one? And only half the price!
5 January 2011 at 23:23 #61826
Versaboss
Participant
@versaboss
Or get one from here, Merry Miller! :

http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/the-25/ER16-MT2-MK2-COLLET/Detail

and the collets also…

No vested interest, just a satisfied customer here. At the moment the 3rd order from me is under way. You can’t beat these prices…

Greetings, Hansrudolf
5 January 2011 at 23:41 #61828
Steve Garnett
Participant
@stevegarnett62550
Yes, Handsrudolf, they are cheap! Just hope that the UK import duty and postage doesn’t knock the cost up too much – and I think that the Merry Miller will need The ER25 one rather than the ER16…
6 January 2011 at 10:06 #61836
The Merry Miller
Participant
@themerrymiller
There is a big difference between the Myford ER25 collet and the Arc Euro ER25 version.

The Myford one is about twice as long as the Arc Euro and no way will it fit into the Arc Euro chuck.

I thought there was a standard for the ER25 system, perhaps I am wrong. It looks like it’s just the head fitting which is the same, what goes on behind the head it is anybody’s business.
6 January 2011 at 11:05 #61839
Versaboss
Participant
@versaboss
Steve, I don’t know which is the limit for import taxes in GB, but the gents at CTC know their business! On my last order they cut away all the prices in the accompanying paperwork, and on the customs declaration about half of the effective value was stated… no import taxes for amounts around 50 $ here! But maybe I should not tell that the whole world…

The insured air freight was between 22 and 27 $. When I think that the cheapest insert holders here cost about 3-4 times the CTC price, thenI am still saving. A collet here costs usually around 30$, against 3.25 (ER 25). The quality is as good as the domestic ones, imho.

Merry Miller, what is this Myford collet??? A ER25 is a ER25 is a ER25 (hmm, kind of citation, but I can’t remember from whom )

Certainly there are no ‘double length’ ER collets; it must be another type.

Greetings, Hansrudolf
6 January 2011 at 11:26 #61840
The Merry Miller
Participant
@themerrymiller
Shown above is image from another website where the author is making his own Myford collets. (finished one on the left).

As I said earlier, the head (or nose) of the collet is ER25, what is behind it is pure MT2.

http://www.haythornthwaite.com/Collet%20Myford.htm  is the link to the author’s website.
6 January 2011 at 11:37 #61843
The Merry Miller
Participant
@themerrymiller
Below is a description form the Myford spares website.

They do ER40 as well as ER25.

Myford Patent 2 MT Collets for fitting directly into the spindle of all ML10, Speed 10, Diamond 10, ML7, ML7-R and Super 7 lathes, with spindle nose bored 2 MT and threaded 1⅛” x 12 TPI Whitworth. The collets may also be used with the big bore Super 7 Plus and Connoisseur lathes in conjunction with 15353 Headstock Reduction/Step Down Adaptor.

The main advantage of the Myford 2 MT Collet, which is located and closed by means of a nose piece, is that the collet features a through bore. Most other 2 MT collets have blind bore because the collets are closed by means of a draw bar. The Myford collet permits longer lengths of material to be passed through the collet where it is supported in the spindle against whirling and allows the part to be machined and positioned nearer to the spindle nose leading to greater accuracy.
Imperial Collets are available in individual sizes from 1/16” to ½” in 64th increments (32 in a full set).
Metric Collets are available in individual sizes from 2mm to 13mm in 0.5mm increments (23 collets in a full set).
6 January 2011 at 13:07 #61854
Chris Crosskey
Participant
@chriscrosskey26628
Myford collets have nothing to do with ER…. if the nose is the same size I would suggest it is coincidental…. It’s a Morse Taper collet that uses a nose closer rather than a drawbar.

I’ve got a full set of Myford collets in Imperial 32nds and metric wholes, with some 0.5mm, 64ths and an odd hex but I’d recoil from using them for milling unless I had to…. I’ve got some drawbar MT2 collets to fit 6mm and 1/4″ as it is useful for FC3’s but for the bigger stuff I use Clarkson Autolock as I’ve been able to get a small fitting chuck to fit both my Myford and my Herbert Simplimill (for when it’s rebuilt) as well as a bigger chuck for the Herbert….

chrisc
6 January 2011 at 13:47 #61856
The Merry Miller
Participant
@themerrymiller
It’s weird that Myford still refer to their collets as ER.

Anyway we’re back to my earlier post and almost full circle now.

I’m with you Chris on this one.

I will not use my Myford collets for milling and will look again at the Posilock chuck and even the MT2 drawbar collets that Arc Euro sell.

Chris, would you use those for 1/2″ cutters?
6 January 2011 at 14:04 #61859
KWIL
Participant
@kwil
Myford refer to ER collets correctly where they are indeed offering ER series colletts together with adaptors which fit the Myford “standard nose” on both the normal and larger bore lathes.

To my knowledge Myford have never referred to their 2MT press in colletts as ER.

I would not try to hold a milling cutter above 1/4″ dia with any hope of it staying still even when I had to use the Myford as a mill.

Edited By KWIL on 06/01/2011 14:05:00
6 January 2011 at 14:24 #61862
The Merry Miller
Participant
@themerrymiller
“The ER system is the only popular toolholding system in which all components (chuck, collets and clamping nut) are standardised by DIN 6499.

ER systems are truly interchangeable. All manufacturers of this system should conform to the DIN 6499 standard. This becomes important to users that may have toolholding systems from different toolholding system manufacturers.

As tools are taken out of the tool crib and reassembled for different jobs, if all the ER system components are in good condition, and are from quality toolholding system manufacturers, the collet and tool should achieve the DIN 6499 accuracy.”

Well there we have it!!

Update your website Myford and call them something different, any suggestions?

I still don’t know what ER signifies, Ever Ready, perhaps!
6 January 2011 at 15:03 #61863
NJH
Participant
@njh
I think the confusion may be due to the arrangement on the Myford web page.

In the ” Lathe Accessories” – section 4 ” Collets” it shows the ER40 nose adapter followed by the ER40 collets. After this, but on the next page, is the ER25 nose adapter. The rest of the section on that page refers to the ” Myford patent No. 2 MT collets ” and the nose adapter, closing tube etc. So I suspect this is where the confusion is occuring.

As far as standardisation goes all ER 25 collets are 35mm long, have a maximum diameter of 26mm and taper of 8 degrees. (Although you probably don’t want to know that!)

Cheers

Norman
6 January 2011 at 16:30 #61870
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
The disadvantage of the Myford ER nosed collets and any MT collet for that matter is that they will only grip on the exact nominal size as they are only split at one end so trying to close them on a smaller item means it is only gripped at the end.

ER collets being split at both ends keep the hole of their bore in contact with the tool as they close parallel.

I also would not use the myford ER nosed collets in anything but a lathe with the correct nose thread. And if faced with having to buy a collet holder for a mill would opt for an ER one over a posilock.

One other thing to watch out for is that some of the imported collet chucks about have what looks like an ER collet but is not, ARC are selling a few of these collets off at a reduced price to clear but Chester still sell the whole thing so watch out as you may pick up a chuck that you can’t get extra collets for at some time in the future.

Jason
7 January 2011 at 00:06 #61898
Steve Garnett
Participant
@stevegarnett62550
Posted by Versaboss on 06/01/2011 11:05:13:

Steve, I don’t know which is the limit for import taxes in GB, but the gents at CTC know their business! On my last order they cut away all the prices in the accompanying paperwork, and on the customs declaration about half of the effective value was stated… no import taxes for amounts around 50 $ here! But maybe I should not tell that the whole world…

The insured air freight was between 22 and 27 $. When I think that the cheapest insert holders here cost about 3-4 times the CTC price, thenI am still saving. A collet here costs usually around 30$, against 3.25 (ER 25). The quality is as good as the domestic ones, imho.

Interesting. I certainly wouldn’t like to pay harmonised VAT at the Danish rate, because believe it or not, it’s even higher than our recently increased rate at a whopping 25%. I don’t think there’s any way around that, though. But if the firm are prepared to be helpful, then that’s very good to know.

I wasn’t too clear in my own mind about this, so I read a bit about it, and it would seem that in theory there shouldn’t be any issues with an import from an EU country, because the goods would already be classed as being in free circulation. So really, it’s just their freight rates we’d have to put up with.

As for the collets thing, Merry Miller – well, I was under the impression that ER stood for Easy Release, and that the sets with numbers at the end were made to a prescribed standard, just as everybody else does – including you now! I don’t own a Myford, so I wasn’t aware of the intricacies of their collet system, but I can see why they’ve made theirs the way they have – it’s not a bad idea for a small lathe system. No help at all on a mill, though.
7 January 2011 at 10:41 #61908
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
Not had much to do with collets, I’v got one 1/4″ x 3MT collet with a 1/4″ draw bar, and on looking at it i would have thought that a tubular draw bar would be better, as it would allow long lengths to be fed through. Just rambling a bit, someone proberbly makes them. Ian S C
7 January 2011 at 12:05 #61914
Clive Foster
Participant
@clivefoster55965
A sometimes overlooked disadvantage of ER systems is the relatively high tightening torque needed to reach specified values of run-out accuracy and pull out force. I have a reference from a reputable maker calling for 70 ft lb on the ER 32 size which I have. As ever I didn’t bookmark the web site, simply taking what I needed. I imagine that there is some torque to collapse distance relationship so close to nominal size probably doesn’t need to be so tight.

When I first got my ER system I had some pull out issues which I’m now pretty sure were due to under tightening. You also need to pay attention to cutter insertion depth as the collet doesn’t collapse correctly unless the innards are supported. I was told at least an inch for ER 32, but have no official back up, and preferably filling the full grip area. If you look up inside the collet its easy to see where the gripping portion ends as, on almost all sizes, the tail has a larger bore. Presumably something to do with getting the right stiffness for straight collapse.

These days I use either a Posiloc system, bought many years ago from Chronos, or plain R8 in my Bridgeport with a couple of Weldon holders for large shanks and short reach throw-aways. The R8 taper ER set has been a bit of a white elephant really although sometime I shall make a 5C adapter to fit my spin-dexer.

By their very nature MT collets suffer from very high draw in friction which doesn’t help holding power. I’d not use them. Which is why my Chinee mill came with an R8 taper even though a Bridgeport seemed an impossible dream at the time.

Clive
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