Parting tools and inserts

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Parting tools and inserts

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  • #586785
    Alan Bain
    Participant
      @alanbain65026

      I've been trying to unravel the mystery of the right parting inserts to use; I have a plentiful supply of SP-200 (which I think are same as GTN-2) and a load of Iscar holders with numbers like

      SGAHR 10-2

      SGTHL 12-2

      SGTHR 20-2

      Blade SGIH 26-3-70

      I get the feeling this may be the wrong insert as they seem to shift and shatter very easily; I think maybe there should be a shoulder to limit the insertion depth of the insert. This would make the insert look like GFN-2. But I confess I'm totally confused….

      Edited By Alan Bain on 22/02/2022 18:04:30

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      #20617
      Alan Bain
      Participant
        @alanbain65026
        #586840
        Howard Lewis
        Participant
          @howardlewis46836

          My advice would be to change over to a holder that takes a HSS parting blade. It will probably be a good investment.

          When I bought my second (at l;east ) hand ML7 in about 1985, I was given a holder (with a used HSS parting blade.

          I am still musing it and it is not yet worn out, still about half left.

          I made a rear toolpost for the ML7 and when that was replaced the parting tool went into a home made four way rear toolpost..

          Tried using an inserted parting tool, but found that despite the vee groove in the top mof the inserts, there were dig ins and jams that eventually damaged the holder. So reverted to the HSS blade.

          Am now so confident that I part off under power! Must have saved a fortune by not having to buy new carbide inserts!

          Howard.

          #586847
          not done it yet
          Participant
            @notdoneityet

            I am in rather complete agreement with Howard. I once had a carbide insert parting tool. I now only use a (likely higher spec) Cobalt HSS material, in a stout holder. Sharpened occasionally with the belt sander, as required, the strip will last me several years – and I have a spare in stock but may never need it.

            For hobby machines, a rear tool post is a very good improvement, IMO. I just put my lathe in power feed and let it get on with feeding/cutting – while I apply cutting fluid and get ready for the parted part coming free. I most certainly would not recommend anyone to buy a cheap parting tool, if fitted in a QCTP on a light-weight lathe. Just too much overhang for an easy life.

            I expect my parting strip cost no more than a couple of your inserts.🙂

             

            Edited By not done it yet on 23/02/2022 08:24:03

            #586851
            Samsaranda
            Participant
              @samsaranda

              Tried using an insert parting tool and had the same problem, now use HSS. Dave W

              #586853
              Neil Lickfold
              Participant
                @neillickfold44316

                At the moment, there is a change happening with parting blades and inserts. The change is that instead of the insert having a taper shape to it, the new ones have a negative taper, so are slightly smaller at the front. The holder is now a flexure, and is expanded to take the insert. So in some cases, the replacement inserts are no longer available. That leaves them with buying a new blade or doing some deal with x number of boxes of inserts a discounted blade. I have not seen the free blade offers yet. In the 3mm for sure they are a through coolant design as well as a no coolant models. I have both the 2mm wide insert parting blades a a 1mm wide HSS blade that came with the original Dickson quick change tool post and holder sets. I got a spare HSS blade back in 1987 with the set and have never used it yet.

                I really like the insert blades for parting off larger diameter stuff that is near solid or has a larger diameter than 1/2 inch in steel . They work well in most materials. For really small stuff or brass and Ali parts under 3/4 inch that are thin walled or need as sharp an edge as possible after being parted off, I use the HSS. The carbide will often leave a burr or quite an amount that will need to be addressed afterwards. Used carefully the Inserts will last a very long time and you can get a lot of parts parted off or grooved etc.

                The insert parting works really well when parting off within 10mm of the chuck, even with 4340 bar.

                Neil

                #586869
                jann west
                Participant
                  @jannwest71382

                  Tip for new players: Carbide insert parting tools which are not held perfectly perpendicular to the axis of rotation of the piece will shatter after a certain amount of infeed with 100% regularity.

                  Ask me how I know this!

                  I think my toolpost was left a degree off after cutting some threads – and I wasted 4 inserts before I worked it out. Never making that mistake again!

                  #586870
                  Vic
                  Participant
                    @vic

                    I found insert parting tools rather expensive to use. I switched back to HSS but chose the T shape blades with chip breaker which work extremely well.

                    #586883
                    Andrew Tinsley
                    Participant
                      @andrewtinsley63637

                      I have been using an Arc eurotrade Parting off blade with a GTN2 tip This is mounted in a QCP holder. So far it has done all I have asked of it on my Myford. I also have an HSS parting off tool, which I can use in a front and rear parting off block.

                      Now I would assume that a GTN2 tip in a QCP would be a good candidate for chatter and digging in. The QCP holder on my Myford is certainly not as rigid as a tool in a 4 way holder or indeed one clamped in the time honoured Myford way. So far both the traditional parting off blade and the insert blade have worked faultlessly.

                      Maybe it is something to do with locking everything that can move or maybe I have just been lucky?

                      Andrew.

                      #586885
                      A Smith
                      Participant
                        @asmith78105

                        JB tools GN2 tips work perfectly well on my ML7.

                        #586888
                        Alan Bain
                        Participant
                          @alanbain65026

                          JB tools would have been my first port of call but they have vanished; website and phone numbers all not working. If anyone knows what has happened would be good to know as they were very helpful!

                          I should probably have said that the lathe while very much domesticated is a Hardinge HLV-H and I would normally part off under power feed (it is continuously variable). I used to have no issues while using the tips supplied with the holders but then they broke (due I suspect to off axis feed as jann west points out). I then tried SP-200s and and zero success which is why I wondered what might be up.

                          Will try arceuro…. Thanks

                          #586895
                          DMB
                          Participant
                            @dmb

                            I use a QCTP parting toolholder in the post on my MLS7. Cannot remember suppliers name. Quite a tight fit on the post because the tightening slot lip is thicker than my other toolholders which fit easily. I stop the chuck using the clutch and wind the topside back, slacken the toolpost, wind carriage along to hold tool against the chuck face for alignment, clamp up. Steady indeed with Guy Lautards cutting oil mix, low speed, around half normal turning speed for relevant metal. Works perfectly.

                            I have George Thomas type rear toolpost iron casting for which I will get a roundtoit some day,then I'll be able to set it up for instant use. All the time current satisfactory arrangement is only used occasionally, little incentive to get a roundtoit……

                            #586896
                            Andrew Tinsley
                            Participant
                              @andrewtinsley63637

                              As far as I know, JB Tools are taking a few months break. They said that they will be back later in the year. I hope so as Jenny Blackwell was an excellent supplier.

                              Andrew

                              #586902
                              David George 1
                              Participant
                                @davidgeorge1

                                Hi I have an Iscar parting blade SGIH 19-2 and use tip GTN2 IC354 I use it in my rear toolpost and I have the original tip I installed over 18 months ago and still going strong.

                                20190316_164659.jpg

                                I believe the part off tool needs to be straight and sturdy. I can part off more than 3 inch diamiter with little problems.

                                David

                                #586977
                                Mark Rand
                                Participant
                                  @markrand96270

                                  I'm pretty sure a GTN insert won't work in a GFN blade and vice versa.

                                  For the folks that have problems or have given up with carbide parting inserts:-
                                  The insert should always be at centre height or ,better, two or three thou above it. HSS can, mostly, cope with being driven under the work by deflection of the work of tool, carbide can't.

                                  For Allan:-
                                  I don't suppose you've got Multifix toolholders do you? if you have, PeWe tools do a very nice parting blade holder for them, alwough JB's blades need some minor grinding to fit properly.

                                  #586985
                                  Alan Bain
                                  Participant
                                    @alanbain65026

                                    I am indeed using Multifix holders and that PeWe holder does look nice and what I need.

                                    As I recall the JB blades (SP226) are a bit larger than the old Iscar ones and I wasn't exactly sure of the angles (pretty much nothing is a right angle!) but if I knew the angles I should be able to set them up on the surface grinder and take down a little.

                                    Alan

                                    #586987
                                    Huub
                                    Participant
                                      @huub

                                      I used a 1.2 MM HSS parting tool for years on the small lathe. For parting you need rigidity. To avoid the parting tool digging in the workpiece, I place the parting tool upside down and invert the spindle rotation. I also let the tool stickout as small as possible. Since I do it this way, even parting steel is not a problem.

                                      I also made a 2mm insert holder for the small lathe and even that works fine. Only the Nema17 stepper on the X-axis has just to little power and misses steps when parting steel. So I replaced it by a Nema 23 stepper and now that is not a problem any more.

                                      #586992
                                      John Reese
                                      Participant
                                        @johnreese12848

                                        I have experienced mixed luck when using carbide insert tooling for parting off. I have HSS parting blades for my 10" and 16" lathes. It is nice to be able to take it to the grinder and put a slight angle on the cutting edge to eliminate those nuisance pips from the cutoff part.

                                        #587023
                                        not done it yet
                                        Participant
                                          @notdoneityet
                                          Posted by Alan Bain on 23/02/2022 22:50:18:

                                          I am indeed using Multifix holders and that PeWe holder does look nice and what I need.

                                          As I recall the JB blades (SP226) are a bit larger than the old Iscar ones and I wasn't exactly sure of the angles (pretty much nothing is a right angle!) but if I knew the angles I should be able to set them up on the surface grinder and take down a little.

                                          Alan

                                          Keep a new spare cutter and you always have a reference to allow grinding the older, used ones back to the original angles(s). Worked for me when I started regrinding HSS cutters.

                                          #587027
                                          Henry Brown
                                          Participant
                                            @henrybrown95529
                                            Posted by Alan Bain on 23/02/2022 22:50:18:

                                            I am indeed using Multifix holders and that PeWe holder does look nice and what I need.

                                            As I recall the JB blades (SP226) are a bit larger than the old Iscar ones and I wasn't exactly sure of the angles (pretty much nothing is a right angle!) but if I knew the angles I should be able to set them up on the surface grinder and take down a little.

                                            Alan

                                            I use a PeWe parting tool holder on a GH1322 lathe with a slightly modified JB blade and their inserts, it works fine provided I keep the cutting edge of the insert in good condition.

                                            I machined an angle on the bottom of the blade to match that of the toolholder to ensure a snug fit.

                                            #587035
                                            ega
                                            Participant
                                              @ega
                                              Posted by John Reese on 24/02/2022 00:11:21:

                                              I have experienced mixed luck when using carbide insert tooling for parting off. I have HSS parting blades for my 10" and 16" lathes. It is nice to be able to take it to the grinder and put a slight angle on the cutting edge to eliminate those nuisance pips from the cutoff part.

                                              I suspect that many of us have had mixed fortunes in parting off!

                                              Sandvik, and no doubt others, do offer inserts with angled edges designed to minimise pip.

                                              #587036
                                              DMB
                                              Participant
                                                @dmb

                                                I looked at PeWe parting toolholder and my bad language exclamation is unpublishable-is it gold plated? €85 = £68 approx. No way!

                                                In my description above, I forgot to mention my toolholder has a clamp plate forcing the HSS blade tightly in position by tapers and I think, 3 caphead screws. Blade thickest I could get – about 3/32" to resist side – bending. As I said, works perfectly, happy boy!

                                                Vaguely recall that it cost around £20-25.

                                                #587041
                                                Tony Pratt 1
                                                Participant
                                                  @tonypratt1
                                                  Posted by DMB on 24/02/2022 11:09:28:

                                                  I looked at PeWe parting toolholder and my bad language exclamation is unpublishable-is it gold plated? €85 = £68 approx. No way!

                                                  In my description above, I forgot to mention my toolholder has a clamp plate forcing the HSS blade tightly in position by tapers and I think, 3 caphead screws. Blade thickest I could get – about 3/32" to resist side – bending. As I said, works perfectly, happy boy!

                                                  Vaguely recall that it cost around £20-25.

                                                  And that is why everyone buys cheap Chinese crap, me included, it's hard to resistsad PeWe I presume is made/shipped from Germany but is it also made in China?

                                                  Tony

                                                  #587045
                                                  DMB
                                                  Participant
                                                    @dmb

                                                    I agree with you,Tony. See my one and only album photo, to view type of holder. I have just tried websites to find it for sale – no luck so far –

                                                    Arceuro, Reeves, Axminster, RDG tools, Rotagrip, Warco, Chronos.

                                                    John

                                                    #587046
                                                    not done it yet
                                                    Participant
                                                      @notdoneityet
                                                      Posted by ega on 24/02/2022 11:05:33:

                                                      Posted by John Reese on 24/02/2022 00:11:21:

                                                      I have experienced mixed luck when using carbide insert tooling for parting off. I have HSS parting blades for my 10" and 16" lathes. It is nice to be able to take it to the grinder and put a slight angle on the cutting edge to eliminate those nuisance pips from the cutoff part.

                                                      I suspect that many of us have had mixed fortunes in parting off!

                                                      Sandvik, and no doubt others, do offer inserts with angled edges designed to minimise pip.

                                                      As per John. Pips should not be a problem. There will be one, either on one side or the other.

                                                      Grinding a HSS cutter with a very slight angle across the face will decide which side the pip is left on. Simple enough and very easy to change (even back and forth) with HSS. Can be done with a green grit wheel for carbide, I suppose (but not as easy or as many times as for a strip of HSS). KISS principle in operation, every time.

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