Getting Myford oiled up

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Getting Myford oiled up

This topic has 29 replies, 17 voices, and was last updated 18 August 2021 at 06:30 by brian jones 11.

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9 August 2021 at 08:44 #557627
brian jones 11
Participant
@brianjones11
Having got some new drip feed oilers sorted I was musing on the topic of keeping your lathe properly oiled.

I had acquired a pressure wanner type oil gun years ago whic is ok but only seemed useful on the layshaft bearings

I also came across this

https://www.haythornthwaite.com/184%20Myford%20Lubrication.pdf

which gave much info on the hidden oiler points

Some of these oiler points were fitted with conventional grease nipples which renders the pressure oiler useless and conventional grease guns (grease being a no-no) cant be used for oil without serious mods eslewherre on MEW

I also fail to understand how the all important beds and saddles can be conveniently oiled, other than splashing oil on the flats and thinking of England

Has anyone else given thought to how this careless situation can be addressed

Yes you can spend an hour or two stripping the machine down but is that really practical for routine use (not production)

I squinch at the thought of any grind dust getting entrained in the lub film, surely part of the lub process is to flush out dirt

Ideas pls
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9 August 2021 at 08:44 #20406
brian jones 11
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@brianjones11
seems like an after thought
9 August 2021 at 09:04 #557630
Martin Kyte
Participant
@martinkyte99762
Posted by brian jones 11 on 09/08/2021 08:44:22:

I had acquired a pressure wanner type oil gun years ago whic is ok but only seemed useful on the layshaft bearings

Some of these oiler points were fitted with conventional grease nipples which renders the pressure oiler useless and conventional grease guns (grease being a no-no) cant be used for oil without serious mods eslewherre on MEWHas anyone else given thought to how this careless situation can be addressed

Yes you can spend an hour or two stripping the machine down but is that really practical for routine use (not production)

I squinch at the thought of any grind dust getting entrained in the lub film, surely part of the lub process is to flush out dirt

Ideas pls

Not entirely sure what your problem is. The Wanner oil gun can be applied to the oil nipples around the machine and will successfully inject oil everywhere it needs to go. With the oilers on the saddle of my Super & two or three pumps is sufficient for oil to issue from underneath visibly onto the bedways which washes any tiny bits with it.

The seal between the gun and the nipple is not brilliant and this topic has been done to death on this forum but the oil does go where it's required and the only criticism is that it can generate some overflow. A quick wipe with a cloth sorts this and I have never objected to a little extra oil on surfaces anyway.

regards Martin
9 August 2021 at 09:52 #557636
Nick Wheeler
Participant
@nickwheeler
Simple answer to your 'problem' is that you worry too much!

A Myford isn't a £10 million jet engine where lubrication is a major part of the design because it's expected to do thousands of hours with as little work as practical. It's a simple, old-fashioned machine that is intended for light use. Oiling the cups and squirting oil on the slides is plenty good enough to give the machine a long and productive life, which yours has already had.
9 August 2021 at 11:40 #557645
Graham Meek
Participant
@grahammeek88282
Over the years I have seen Myford's dripping in oil, so much so the swarf tray has become a lake.

The amount of oil needed is miniscule, the old adage of a little goes a long way is very true. Place a drop of oil on a steel plate and leave it, see how long it takes to evaporate.

The bedways on my Emco Maximat have no oiling points, the felt wipers pick up oil when the bedways are lubricated and redistribute the oil as the ways become dry.

As regards grinding dust. I cover my bedways with an old piece of Denim when using the Tool post grinder. The lighter side always goes towards the ways. When storing the Denim away I fold the lighter side innermost, that way it will always stay clean.

After all grinding work, (& I do a lot), the machine is given a good clean and re-oiled. The lathe is 35 years old this year. It was my source of income for a number of years, and the bedways are still pristine.

I am reminded of the playground wisdom of "more oil on the bicycle chain makes the bicycle go faster".

Regards

Gray,
9 August 2021 at 16:57 #557681
brian jones 11
Participant
@brianjones11
A predictable response

Perhaps those wise owls will tell me how the Wanner oil gun is supposed to work here (it most certainly doesnt)

it bit blurred cos i struggled to hold camera and gun, but i think the scale is clear

and the gun does not make proper mating with the flat top nipple, unlike the press fit lay shaft nipples

note these nipples are the parallel shank type not the later hydraulic type with a bulbous nose typical for grease guns

I wondered if anyone had made an adapter between the Wanner and this type of nipple

I did get a spare grease gun head with a view to creating such a widget but I thought I might ask here first

BTW I did search this site first but didnt come up with any answers but converting a grease gun to become a pressure oiler is a project in itself.

I could of course replace these antique nipples with a Wanner friendly pair (my gun works well and doesnt squirt up my sleeve as reported)

It still begs the question why more oiling ports werent available for important surface. Upward squirting on feed screw nuts – really? Not easy to lube the compound slides faces

The idea of using grinding wheels near such a lathe – I couldnt live with that, though there are machines dedicated to grinding and they no doubt have ways to keeps surfaces clear of abrasives (outside my bailliewick)

I believe there are a couple of nipples in the back gear assy but I have never used that feature

I was hoping someone might have taken the saddle off perhaps when converting to wide bed

Cant see how you were supposed to lube the apron (I dont have power cross feed) but still it does belie the fact that the traverse wheel gets very floppy in its bearing as does the half nut clamp handle – lack of lube here?

OBTW, to say that this topic has been done to death is a bit slick

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=123589

It has certainly taxed many other users. Its like mentioning a Myford aberration that we dont talk about in the family

One member has mentioned simple collar with O rings – now thats a positive response

Edited By brian jones 11 on 09/08/2021 17:11:35
9 August 2021 at 18:00 #557684
Harry Wilkes
Participant
@harrywilkes58467
Brian I have a Wanner oil gun that came with my S7 and it as a different end which does fit over the nipples

H
9 August 2021 at 18:33 #557687
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Picture of a Wanner with the right end on the Myford Website
9 August 2021 at 18:35 #557688
Martin Kyte
Participant
@martinkyte99762
Hi Brian

This is the correct oil gun

and this is the end

and this is how it fits

so the predictable response is that you got correct information

regards Martin
9 August 2021 at 18:40 #557690
brian jones 11
Participant
@brianjones11
Well guys tell me how that will work on the layshaft bearings which have a 1/4" press fit spring ball type that is flat and flush fitting, which my conical guns works ok.

Edited By brian jones 11 on 09/08/2021 19:07:09
9 August 2021 at 18:46 #557692
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
If you read the link I posted you will see that that type of gun is for the 2 BA nipples, other types of oiling points will need other tools.
9 August 2021 at 18:49 #557693
Pete Rimmer
Participant
@peterimmer30576
Posted by brian jones 11 on 09/08/2021 18:40:23:

Well guys tell me how that will work on the layshaft bearings which have a 1/4" press fit spring ball type that is flat and flush fitting, which my conical guns works ok.

The answer is pretty obvious you need different ends to fit the different fittings.
9 August 2021 at 19:18 #557697
brian jones 11
Participant
@brianjones11
Well thats pretty Myford for you then, an oil gun that works for one set of nipples but not for the rest. Why didnt they use the same nipples throughout? Some small boy apprentice's handiwork here

But I have a cunning plan and you can spot the answer from the photos I posted
9 August 2021 at 19:26 #557698
brian jones 11
Participant
@brianjones11
Posted by JasonB on 09/08/2021 18:46:22:

If you read the link I posted you will see that that type of gun is for the 2 BA nipples, other types of oiling points will need other tools.

And where on your link does it suggest where these other tools are available

The gun I have is for the original flush press fit nipples as I have shown. I cant remember where I sourced the gun 10 years ago but it was specific for this type of nipple and presumably what Myford would have supplied cos how else do you charge this type of nipple

OBTW I can tell you that the gun nozzle fits accurately into the nipple hole, making a tight metal seal. See how the hole is larger than a grease nipple hole, which is why the oil gun cant work on these

Edited By brian jones 11 on 09/08/2021 19:30:43
9 August 2021 at 19:31 #557699
Steviegtr
Participant
@steviegtr
My Super 7 has all the same oil nipples. the gun shown by someone above is what i have.

Steve.
9 August 2021 at 19:34 #557701
speelwerk
Participant
@speelwerk
The Myford oil gun is not a pleasant design to use. Still have it but laid it aside after using it ones and bought another new one at the local supplier. Niko.
9 August 2021 at 19:41 #557704
Maurice Taylor
Participant
@mauricetaylor82093
Hi,When I got my ML7 ,I got an old oil gun from a steam rally for a couple of quid ,it did not fit the nipples on the ML7.

Then I used the ML7 to make a new end for the oil gun ,this fitted the nipples.

Job done easy, ML7 oiled.

Maurice
9 August 2021 at 20:13 #557705
Martin Kyte
Participant
@martinkyte99762
This is my Super 7 Layshaft. It has oil cups which get filled with a Reiling oil can.

Maybe someone would tell you what the original fittings were on an ML7 layshaft.

refards Martin
9 August 2021 at 20:20 #557706
Martin Kyte
Participant
@martinkyte99762
Lathes.co.uk show flat top oil nipples on their ML7 shown in the link.

**LINK**

Could it be that your fittings are non standard maybe?

regards Martin
9 August 2021 at 22:33 #557711
Anonymous
As an aside, on my ML7, I find that a scrap of paper-towel placed over the nipple when lubricating, sends all the oil into the nipple and avoids any mess.
9 August 2021 at 23:34 #557716
William S
Participant
@williams
Like Martin has illuded too above could your ''original'' flush mount oilers be a previous owners ''upgrade'' I can not find another ML7 on the web with flush mount oilers there (apart from Steve Jordan on Youtube and he is a well known ML7 ''pimper outer'&#39

My 1974 Super 7 has late type screw in fittings all round (apart form the 3 oil cups), my quite early ML7 has the early type of again, screw in nipples. Maybe try digging the flush mount oilers out, and seeing if there is the remnants of a thread in in there?

Does having 2 of the same gun with different ends push the boat out to far, they are after all 2 different types of bearings so really require 2 different grades of oil(slideway/linear, rotary), which might be what the person who possibly changed them out in the first place thought, Low and behold it could well of been that ''small boy apprentice'', using his ''little'' noggin.

I wish people would stop critiquing Myfords 70+ year old design choices. They were not designed for todays heavy handed users who want to produce everything at 4000 rpm in -10seconds. Its mostly a hobby, enjoy using your brain to improve the not so good bits, its what I do.
9 August 2021 at 23:50 #557717
Grindstone Cowboy
Participant
@grindstonecowboy
The two Myfords I have access to both have flush oilers on the countershaft and the type shown in the photos above everywhere else.

I have no reason to think they aren't original.

Rob
10 August 2021 at 08:26 #557730
brian jones 11
Participant
@brianjones11
Thanx GC, you can see the kind of FES I am up against. I too believe my press fit flush oilers are original 1952 and that they were changed to a screw in 2ba hydraulic type later

Without the original Wanner telescopic gun with conical tip it would be very difficult to inject oil

As I said at the beginning I have come to believe that Holy Mother Myford rather overlooked the need for routine lubrication in the early days – this is Lese Majeste and as with those fire fighting aircraft I shall be bombed with liquid ordure

Notwithstanding, I am proceeding with a cunning plan
10 August 2021 at 08:54 #557734
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
Dunno much about fymords, but I might expect two types of fittings at least. Low and high pressure. Then, there may be some grease and the rest oil. In fact, apparently there are some ‘no pressure’ fittings as well – the capillary/drip oilers and squirting oil on the ways. Nothing particularly difficult or arduous, but a necessary routine when in use.

If the machine has been fitted with the wrong type of lubricating fittings, at some time, it should be easy (and perhaps sensible) to remove the wrong ones and fit the correct items. I’m quite sure they would all be available from The Nipple Shop, which is where I have had good service in the past.

Think here that low pressure will likely be press-fit and high pressure will be screw-fit. I have oiled all the spring ball type with a pump-type Wesco oil can without recourse to a special high pressure oil gun.

The nozzles on most oil or grease guns can be interchanged as required, I expect. I have more grease guns and nozzles available than I will ever need. Most agricultural machines, for instance, tote the same nipple type across the whole machine, even though some nipples may be harder to access than others.
10 August 2021 at 10:22 #557747
Ex contributor
Participant
@mgnbuk
Pretty pointless getting all worked up over a 75 year old design, which used lubrication arrangements that would have been familiar to users of the time. That many thousands of users over the ensuing 75 years have managed to keep their machines in working order using these methods suggests that, while they may not be "cutting edge 2021", they do the job.

FWIW I use an oil can of this type in conjunction with a couple of short lengths of clear plastic fuel pipe on my S7. The pointed end of the spout fits into the ball of flush nipples and fills the oil cups & a short length of fuel pipe warmed in hot water to slip over the end of the spout fits nicely over the parallel head nipples with no leaks. The hydraulic type nipples on the QC gearbox require a larger bore piece of fuel pipe.

No need for expensive brand named oil guns to get oil in all the required places without making a mess, just a bit of lateral thinking ?

Nigel B.
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