Stent T&C Refurb (also need Wiring Help)

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Stent T&C Refurb (also need Wiring Help)

Home Forums Workshop Tools and Tooling Stent T&C Refurb (also need Wiring Help)

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  • #479838
    Colin Heseltine
    Participant
      @colinheseltine48622

      I bought a second hand Stent T&C many years ago and finally during lockdown have had chance to strip and clean it, paint it and do a few minor mods.

      As obtained although the handles/wheels were graduated but the main pillar base, table end clamps nor spindle mounting were graduated. I wanted to get this done.

      I had recently completed a Division Controller and using this in conjunction with a Hemingway Graduating Tool was able to do the graduations. Had to make several mods to the graduating tool to enable it to be used on the milling machine.

      hem4.jpg

      hem3.jpg

      hem5.jpg

      stentrefurb1.jpg

      I still have to make a better grinding wheel guard than that which the machine came with. When did a test run I realised that grinding wheel is running in a clockwise direction and thus blasting the sparks up at my face.

      I would like to make the to be able to run either clockwise or anticlockwise. I have shown below the motor plate and then the inside connections to the motor and also the wiring schematic from the motor. I have followed this with a hand drawn layout showing the various cables and colours.

      stentmotorplate.jpg

      stentmotorterminals.jpg

      stentmotorschematic.jpg

      stentmotorwiring.jpgAs I understand it I can run the motor in either direction by moving the two links plates; currently Z1 to U2 and Z2 to 02 to a revised state of Z1 – 02 and U2 – Z2.

      I want to be able to do this by means of a 3 position switch, Left=Anticlock, Centre=Off, right = Clockwise.

      Can some of you considerably more expert members please advise on type of switch and how to route the cables. This would be greatly appreciated. I do not have a problem doing the wiring I just do not want to screw it up and blow up a nice motor..

      If any of you fine gentlemen have a Stent T&C in your workshops I would be interested in knowing what size grinding wheels you use and how far they reach towards the table. In the picture I have shown of the Stent with some of its accessories you will see a bracket on the right hand side of the picture to the right of the pair of castings (next on the list to machine) do you have any idea what this is. It does not appear to relate to any of the drawings in the plans but could possibly be for putting a radius on a cutter?

      Many Thanks

      Colin

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      #19817
      Colin Heseltine
      Participant
        @colinheseltine48622
        #479875
        Colin Heseltine
        Participant
          @colinheseltine48622

          Possibly answering my own question here, but would still like some confirmation.

          I think I need a Double Pole Double Throw Toggle switch with a centre off position rated for 250v and I would guess about 5 amps.

          Would connect Z1 to one input and Z2 to the other input. With the switch set to position 1 the output from Z1 would go to U2 and the output from Z2 would go to 02. This would give anticlockwise running.

          Switching to the centre position would break the connections. Moving switch to position 2 would connect Z1 to 02 and Z2 to U2. This would now run the motor in clockwise direction.

          I noticed in the motor schematic it shows Live to U1 and Neutral to U2. My motor is set to reverse of this but I guess this does not matter too much??

          I have looked on RS Components but not seen a suitable DPDT switch.  CPC Farnell Have a Toggle Switch, Metal Lever, DPDT, ON-OFF-ON, 10A   Part No SW02434 which I think would be ok.

          My other thoughts would be that it would pay to fit a NVR switch on the incoming supply.

          Colin

          Edited By Colin Heseltine on 14/06/2020 20:37:29

          #479878
          Martin Cargill
          Participant
            @martincargill50290

            You have answered your own question correctly. A Double pole Double throw toggle switch with a centre off will do what you require. All you have to do is to wire a crossover at the switch (feed the Z1,Z2 to the two centre contacts and wire cross over links between the two pairs of outer contacts and then wire the start winding  to one end of the switch. I assume that the switch shown in your diagram is a centrifugal one to cut out the start winding once the motor has spun up, if so then you don't need to worry about the switch being changed over when the motor is running as the start circuit is already switched out at this point. The motor will only start in the opposite direction once the motor has stopped and has been re started.

            Suitable switches can be found on Ebay

            A NVR on the incoming supply is a good idea as it protects against an inadvertent restart if the power supply is interrupted.

             

            Martin

            Edited By Martin Cargill on 14/06/2020 20:50:06

            #479917
            duncan webster 1
            Participant
              @duncanwebster1

              Why do you need a centre off position? If you have it in the off position and then energise the main on/off switch it will buzz for a bit then get hot as there will be no back EMF..

              You can get a double contactor affair which acts as NVR and reversing switch, my lathe had one before I converted to 3 phase. Probably stunningly expensive.

              #479924
              peak4
              Participant
                @peak4

                I wired my Quorn with a DPDT toggle for forward/reverse, and a cheap NVR switch from ebay for stop start.
                Because I move the grinder around, I also used a kettle socket and detachable lead, to save tripping myself up when I get old and doddery.
                It also means it's likely to unplug the lead if I accidentally catch it on something, rather than dragging the grinder off the bench.
                This makes it a particularly good idea to use an NVR switch to save accidental re-starts.
                It also helps avoid trying to reverse the motor by accident when it is still spinning down, which is the danger with a centre off toggle.

                Bill

                #479954
                Colin Heseltine
                Participant
                  @colinheseltine48622

                  .NVR switch and a DPDT switch without centre off will be ordered asap. Thank you for your helpful comments.

                  Colin

                  #479970
                  thaiguzzi
                  Participant
                    @thaiguzzi

                    Welcome to The Club.

                    The Stent Owners Club.

                    Bought mine as a S/H unfinished project too. Funny old world. Innit.

                    Yeah, i built my Stent using a S/H washing machine motor with a new external capacitor, as i knew washing machine motors have to run both directions.

                    Double toggle switch is from a Brit motorcycle, so originally 12V.

                    Never been any elektrickery problems.

                    Got over 200 hours of build time in it, and at least half that in use.

                    Happy playing.

                    20160830_140255.jpg

                    20170613_085448.jpg

                    20170613_085421.jpg

                    #480140
                    Colin Heseltine
                    Participant
                      @colinheseltine48622

                      Amazing how different they all look. You look well tooled up for it.

                      Colin

                      #480441
                      thaiguzzi
                      Participant
                        @thaiguzzi

                        Yes, i did'nt like the look of the motor plate design in the Stent drawings and others on the web, so changed how my motor was bolted on, adjusted, and the Z column.

                        #545813
                        Geraint Williams
                        Participant
                          @geraintwilliams68288

                          img_1630.jpgHi not sure whether appropriate to tag this onto this earlier thread but I've also started refurbishing a Stent T&C

                          I ran into a couple of problems from the outset I need some help with

                          1) Nut was rusted onto the spindle – but managed just about to remove this with a wrench and tommy bar……eventually – so this is now sorted

                          2) Grinding wheel arbor appears to be in the same situation but I have no idea how it's attached (i.e. screwed and rusted / push fit and rusted on etc)….and no idea how to remove it!. I've sprayed some Seafoam deep clean which helped with the nut but don't know what I'm dealing with to attempt to remove the arbor

                          3) What sort of lathe tool holders are there for the Stent? I am just looking for something to hold some 1/4in tools so that I can grind to specific angles?

                          Any ideas/advice would be most welcomed as I'm a relative newbie to this and want to avoid brute force to remove the arbor img_1632.jpgif possible.

                          Thanks

                          Geraint

                          #546223
                          Nigel Graham 2
                          Participant
                            @nigelgraham2

                            This thread of interest to me as I have acquired one part-made. Some interesting ideas above, including rather better guards than as-designed.

                            One modification I think published in MEW some years ago, is to reverse the layout so the motor is to the left of the column. That improvement puts the normal position of the spindle near the centre of the table.

                            I am pondering a system slightly based on the BCA Jig-borer's drive to place the motor on the base, removing its weight from the column. Also to modify the main spindle bearing-block, replacing the stepped bore with a single diameter and a spacer, to facilitate any future bearing replacement.

                            Colin –

                            Useful mods to the Graduating Tool. When I engraved the hand-wheels on my Hemingway 'Worden' T&C Grinder, I ground an old cutter or broken centre-drill to shape and simply held it in a collet in the mill spindle, in conjunction with a 'Warco' badged clone Vertex dividing-head. A lever-type tool such as the Hemingway one you show would be the better choice, and a suitably beefed-up version could also be used as a key-way cutter.

                            '

                            Geraint –

                            Your Q3. I do not have the original construction serial but the Blackgates drawings show only cylindrical cutter-holders. However it should not be too difficult to make some form of holder that can be swapped with the block that takes the cutter-holders.

                            Or indeed has a cylindrical body but rectangular inner to match the existing part. The 'Worden' T&C grinder uses something like this for lathe tools with a slotted rectangular block to hold the tool, mounted across a cylindrical spigot that fits the collet-block.

                            My guess is that when the Stent was designed, most model-engineers typically used an off-hand grinder for lathe tools, working to gauges when necessary. Perhaps the introduction of insert tooling has made us more aware of accurate turning-tool geometry, especially for applications like screw-cutting.

                            Edited By Nigel Graham 2 on 21/05/2021 21:07:32

                            #546242
                            bernard towers
                            Participant
                              @bernardtowers37738

                              You only need cutter holders with round holes the size of the corner dims and 1 grubscrew to hold it in place. Or go the whole hog and dump the main shaft and make a new one with er collets then problem solved.

                              #546583
                              Geraint Williams
                              Participant
                                @geraintwilliams68288

                                Thanks all

                                Nigel – I've requested drawings from Blackgates. Hopefully they'll come through early next week…..and will give me a few ideas

                                Bernard – this is what I love about this forum…even as a total newbie to model engineering and forums in general. The ability of folk to just explain something that wasn't in any way obvious to me in one sentence…….and suddenly the penny drops and I'm there thinking – of course, why didn't I think of that!!

                                G

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