BRIERLEY DRILL GRINDER

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BRIERLEY DRILL GRINDER

This topic has 23 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 5 October 2022 at 10:09 by noel shelley.

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19 January 2020 at 16:00 #447571
noel shelley
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@noelshelley55608
At long last I've got my hands on a brierley drill grinder. I think it may be a ZB 11 but can find no numbers. No manual, no cams.The motor runs. The motor/grinder is moved by a lever and the 4jaw chuck would seem good for about 16mm. The manuals are available at a big price. Does anybody know anything about these machines ? Noel.
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19 January 2020 at 16:00 #19594
noel shelley
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@noelshelley55608
19 January 2020 at 19:21 #447633
Chris Evans 6
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@chrisevans6
I have a Brierley supplied cutter grinder (American made "Cuttermaster&quot I have seen You Tube operating instructions / Demonstrations for my machine. Worth a search for the drill grinder ?
21 January 2020 at 11:06 #447979
noel shelley
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@noelshelley55608
Hi Chris, I have been intouch with Brierley/chester. Though my machine shows little wear it's an early model for which no spares are available. I don't know what model it is, yet. My only option is to A) try to adapt a cam from the later ZB25 or B) make one from scratch. I await a reply as to wether A is possible or if brierley can offer any help with a sketch or drawing with plan B. The protrusion of the drill bit beyond the chuck has to be set by a Gauge, there is a graduated bar behind and below the chuck though it's purpose is at the moment unclear. It's markings I think refer to drill diameter in 32nd of an inch,0 to20 which would tally with it having a capacity of 5/8" Having looked at some youtube vids they only give a vauge idea as to how it works. At the moment any help or advice would be useful. Noel
21 January 2020 at 12:18 #447998
Baz
Participant
@baz89810
Have got a ZB25 with all the kit and manuals, let me have a picture and I will see if I can help.
21 January 2020 at 20:14 #448113
noel shelley
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@noelshelley55608
Brierleys man says it's a ZB 2,and about 50 years old ! The next task is to find out what the setting gauge for the protrusion of the drill bit looks like and make one. The cam for a ZB 25 is £92, and may not fit. I don't paying IF it will work !

Where are you based Baz ?
21 January 2020 at 20:15 #448114
Baz
Participant
@baz89810
Noel, I am in Hampshire.
6 November 2020 at 23:22 #505702
Howie Dines
Participant
@howiedines14800
Noel,

Did you get the size data you needed for the setting gauge? If not take a look here of what I did.

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/brierley-zb-25-drill-grinder-setting-gauge-size-help-382396/
28 December 2021 at 10:01 #577076
Ashley Slater 1
Participant
@ashleyslater1
Hi I seem to be in a similar position having acquired the basics of a Brierley. I have no grinding motor so planning to mount a bench grinder on the slide with the LH wheel removed and spindle covered, that seems easy enough. I don’t have any lever or details of how the motor is traversed along the grinding spindle axis, I have all of the cross slide that moves the wheel closer to the drill but nothing to slide the motor along the spindle axis any body could send me some info on how the lever mounts and how it works it would be great. Then I need to make the drill position gauge but that looks possible. It’s very old only has 4 jaw chuck fitted No makers plate only the supplier who were Monks and Crane and owner Girling Brakes all of whom are in Romford I think so not far from me.
13 May 2022 at 18:40 #598181
Jakkie Blom
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@jakkieblom49258
Noel

Do you have photos of your Brierley ZB 2?

I bought a old Brierley could also be a ZB 2 and then I may be able to help you with dimensions on setting gauge. Could also help with cam dimensions. Look like it use 1 cam for lh & rh thread, just 2 positions on shaft
13 May 2022 at 22:47 #598198
noel shelley
Participant
@noelshelley55608
Hi,Ashley and Jakkie, I have no photos, I landed up with 3, an oldish ZB11, And newer ZB25 and ZB32. They all use the same cams red for one hand and green for the other. There are many types of cams for different types of drill point. I have the setting gauge now, I also have quite a bit of info on their use and all the toys to go with them. Early machines had a 4 jaw chuck, later they used a 6jaw. If you want info or parts lists and manuals PM me. Noel.
14 May 2022 at 06:30 #598211
Jakkie Blom
Participant
@jakkieblom49258
Noel,

Thank you, I would like to get info on the ZB11, parts list and manual. My one got a 4 jaw chuck.

Thank you
14 May 2022 at 08:49 #598223
Ashley Slater 1
Participant
@ashleyslater1
I have to admit I moved my Brierly ZB11 on as I couldn’t get it to grind correctly however hard I tried. Plus it was so big I didn’t have the space, but the person who bought it did get it to work. As I understand Brierly had a fire some years ago and all records were destroyed but I’d be surprised if there isn’t a copy of the manual somewhere. I bought a ZB25 manual it was of some help. My main issue was drill projection from the chuck and was drill on Center line of grinding wheel. Plus getting the 4 jaw to hold anything above 6mm was impossible you can see why they moved to a 6 jaw. Of course you could try and change the chuck but 80mm 6 jaw chucks are a tad expensive new and impossible to find secondhand.

Ashley
14 May 2022 at 17:58 #598261
noel shelley
Participant
@noelshelley55608
Hi Jakkie,Brierley still exist , well sort of, the new owners when I asked about the ZB11 or 12 was told "Oh that's an obselete machine", they could supply some cams, but at £93 each. For info on using them the best guide is the ZB25/32 manual, I have been unable to find anything on the ZB11/12. It's max drill size is 5/8" or 16mm. For all point angles you need a No2 cam marked in green for righthand drills, for Left hand you need No1 marked red. A complete set of cams would be 8 red and 8 green. The V gauge that gives the drill protrusion is a bit of 1.6 steel sheet with a 2" deep V cut in it 1/2" wide at the end. It is marked every 1/32" starting at the point with numbers up to 16.. Put the drill in the V read the number and that is your setting number for protrusion. above 16 ie 1/2" you use 16. OR plan B,no V gauge. Measure drill, convert size to 32nds and that is your setting number. There are 4 TOYS that come with the ZB25/32, the 1MT and 2MT steady, the 3MT steady, a straight shank steady plus the diamond dressing tool. All these items can easily be made in the home workshop with a lathe. For more info PM me. Noel.

Edited By noel shelley on 14/05/2022 17:58:49
15 May 2022 at 06:50 #598283
Jakkie Blom
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@jakkieblom49258
Thank you, I will ask Brierley if they can help me setup the grinder
15 May 2022 at 10:39 #598298
noel shelley
Participant
@noelshelley55608
Hi Ashley, One thing not always realised is that the cam and chuck are timed so that everything happens at the right time ! IF the gears are meshed wrong then the in,out side to side and rotation all happen in the wrong order ! This may have been the trouble with your machine. Noel
15 May 2022 at 12:01 #598305
Jakkie Blom
Participant
@jakkieblom49258
Noel, that is my problem, I must get that timing correct! There are 3 different marks on the 2 gears, so I must figure out how to get that right as well as what lengt the connecting rod must be set to.
15 May 2022 at 17:34 #598327
Ashley Slater 1
Participant
@ashleyslater1
I’ve checked the photos of my Brierley there was one cam marked in two different places RH and LH and the chuck had I think 4 positions or slots that the lock fitted into two marked LH and RH others were marked FB and LB no idea what they were for.I did change the timing according to the ZB25 manual it didn’t help much. Changing the timing required at least 3 hands the large Tufnell gear was only held in position by two 2BA studs and brass nuts. As it was all under spring tension you will know what happened to one of the nuts! There was no facility to alter the crank arm. I had assumed the machine I had was a ZB 11or 12 max size drill that could be fitted through the spindle was less than 12mm Quite honestly it was the most frustrating (and heavy) bit of kit I’ve ever owned I only paid £40 for it and was glad to see it go, but I do have a. Clarkson drill grinding attachment, however , the friend I sold it to did get it to work correctly. My plan was to get it working and sell at a profit in the end I just about covered my costs.
4 October 2022 at 12:15 #615952
noel shelley
Participant
@noelshelley55608
At the suggestion of a couple of members I direct you to another seemingly unconnected thread ! THE MIDLAND – THE ONLY SHOW IN TOWN ! Be patient and follow throught to the start of October where I offered some of my experiences that IF you have a Brierley may be of interest. There are 2 points that see these machines go haywire ! A) The timing of the cam and chuck, this requires careful setting of the gear train and B) a badly balanced wheel, this will cause real trouble, as by the time the machine comes to the likes of us it may be well worn and a badly out of balanced wheel will cause the cross slide to follow the wheel back and forth ! A basic wheel balancer is not hard to make and will prove invaluable in getting this machine to work well.

The V gauge is a piece of metal Thinnish, Markings 0.100" apart, numbered 2,4,6, Etc to 16. and a V cut out to be 0.500 wide at the 16 mark. You will note a notch cut at the end, this gives you the form for the shape of the edge of a dish wheel for point thinning, though you will need a diamond dresser and the tool to go in the chuck. The angle is 105* with a radiused edge for normal 118* inluded angle drill bits. I will try to add a picture. Noel

pic

Edited By noel shelley on 04/10/2022 12:31:53

Edited By noel shelley on 04/10/2022 12:46:14
4 October 2022 at 16:54 #615991
DC31k
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@dc31k
Posted by noel shelley on 04/10/2022 12:15:42:

…V cut out to be 0.500 wide at the 16 mark.

… with a radiused edge for normal 118* included angle drill bits.

The descripton above makes it difficult to reproduce as it is open to some interpretation.

See below for three possiblities for V-notch angle using given dimensions. Could you trace the actual angle on a piece of paper and measure with a protractor or put a 1/2" piece of silver steel into it and take a picture?

See also two possibilities for the radiused edge – do you lie the two flutes in the join between 'tread' and 'riser' or is the centreline laid parallel to the 'tread'?

Looks like a crocodile.

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4 October 2022 at 23:27 #616025
noel shelley
Participant
@noelshelley55608
I go with 18* ! You put the drill shank in the groove to give the cutting size, not some reduced area. Although for this purpose 0.6* or 0.2* will not make a significant difference. It was a simple way of measuring a drill bit, the numbers refer to the drill diameter in 32nds of an inch, this being used to set drill protrusion from the chuck and setting the clearance angle on another control.

The 105* for the point splitting wheel is the notch on the left hand end. The notches and dimentions on the top are for form grinding the side of the wheel to generate the truax point which uses cams 11, left hand or 12, right hand, This form became obsolete which is why you rarely see these cams. I hope this is clear ? Noel.
5 October 2022 at 07:55 #616034
DC31k
Participant
@dc31k
Posted by noel shelley on 04/10/2022 23:27:04:

I go with 18* You put the drill shank in the groove to give the cutting size

The 18 degrees is impossible to achieve by putting a 1/2" diameter object between the jaws as it is tangential to neither the top not the bottom. You can verify this by drawing a 1/2" dia. circle on the diagram centred on the midpoint of the 1/2" dimension and noting that it will overlap both top and bottom lines.

From your clarification on the numbers meaning diameter in thirty seconds, the bottom sketch looks more likely, and we can construct the vee more simply by adding a 1/4" circle on the 8 mark and drawing the tangent line.
5 October 2022 at 08:58 #616039
Howie Dines
Participant
@howiedines14800
When I rebuilt my grinder I made up a new set of plates. As I didn't have the V setting gauge I just made up an additional plate (shown in blue) with the setting sizes.
5 October 2022 at 10:09 #616049
noel shelley
Participant
@noelshelley55608
Whether 17.4* 18*, or 18.2 * all you need to know is the drill diameter ! Read it off the shank, measure it with a caliper or micrometer or use some sort of gauge ! Convert this dimention into X number of32nds of an inch and this is your setting number. As has been pointed out by Howie the V gauge is not really needed.

The need to generate the TRUAX point has been overtaken by split point / 4 facet grinding and the cost of boxes of 10 4 or 5 mm bits making it not normally worth it. To change from normal 118* point to TRUAX requirers a 11/12 cam and a differnt wheel to be fitted and dressed to the correct form for the bit size.

Point thinning on larger drills is fine if you drill through in one , but it is often quicker to pilot hole in 5 or 6mm first. ! Again you need a second wheel ! Noel.
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