Vertex HV6 – Corrected Division Table plus universal dividing spreadsheet

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Vertex HV6 – Corrected Division Table plus universal dividing spreadsheet

This topic has 40 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 19 December 2018 at 17:12 by Michael Gilligan.

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23 February 2016 at 15:49 #226570
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
Trying to cut a 1.5 Mod 13T gear, and produced two scrappers.

Thought that it was my miscounting the number of holes, but the second attempt still resulted in the final tooth being much thicker than the others. So it looked as if the increment was a little too small.

Spent some hours setting up a spreadsheet to check the Number of Turns and No. of Holes for the three Division Plates and the various Divisions.

According my calculations, the movement should be given by 6 turns and 36 holes on a 39 hole Plate, not the 6 Turns and 30 Holes shown in the manual. The slightly greater increment would be likely to make the final tooth thinner, and it is possible that the compiler read a 6 as a Zero.

There appear to be other errors, possibly merely typos. Has anyone else had similar problems?

Howard
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23 February 2016 at 15:49 #18007
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
In response to errors in the supplied table with HV6 dividing heads
23 February 2016 at 15:55 #226571
Anonymous
Correct, for a 90:1 reduction and 13 divisions you require 6 and 36/39 turns per tooth.

Andrew
23 February 2016 at 17:39 #226578
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
Thanks!

So, despite my misgivings, the Vertex manual does contain some errors, (found others as well) and my spreadsheet looks to be correct! Ah well off to turn up another gear blank to Loctite into place, ready for turning and gearcutting.

One day, I will get this job finished.

Howard
23 February 2016 at 17:40 #226579
colin hawes
Participant
@colinhawes85982
My Vertex dividing head chart (ratio 1:40) has a an error for 24t ,obviously a typo as it states 1 turn and 33/22 of a turn on a 33 hole dividing plate. You are going to spot the error though as it is impossible to do that. However, I no longer trust the printed charts without confirming the sums. Colin
23 February 2016 at 17:49 #226582
HasBean
Participant
@hasbean
After finding one error in the chart for the HV6 I went through the lot. Seem to remember there were a good few cockups so do check first!

Paul
23 February 2016 at 18:14 #226587
Tim Stevens
Participant
@timstevens64731
It would be a service and help someone else if the faults could be reported to the makers. As long as the makers then made the corrections, of course. Has anyone had experience of Vertex in this regard?

Cheers, Tim
23 February 2016 at 20:01 #226604
Kenneth Deighton
Participant
@kennethdeighton43272
Is it possible for someone to post/print a set of new figures for us not so bright ones that find it difficult to do the maths ?.
23 February 2016 at 21:04 #226620
Tomk
Participant
@tomk39956
The arithmetic for dividing heads is to take the number of turns to do 360 degrees (40) or (90) Divide by the divisions required keep answer in fractions. For 13 divisions this would be:-

90/13 = 6 12/13

Multiple the denominator 13 by a number that gives a set of holes on a division plate you have and multiply the numerator 12 by the same number.

For the above example the 13*3=39 and 12×3=36

Therefore 6 turns. 36 holes on 39 hole plate

For 40 turn head 40/13 = 3 1/13 if you have 26 hole plate the

13*2 =26 1*2=2 therefore 3 turns 2 holes on 26 hole plate

Use 3 for 39 hole plate which works 13*3=39 and 1*3=3

Which = 3 turns and 3 holes on 39 hole plate.

Tom
23 February 2016 at 21:09 #226623
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
If someone can compile a corrected chart as a PDF, I'll happily put it up on this site.

Neil
24 February 2016 at 07:53 #226660
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
Have E mailed my revised chart, as a WORD document, to Neil, in the hope that he can transpose it in to a PDF.

The Print out will be laminated for use in the workshop, and an additional copy kept in the folder with the Vertex manual.

My Spreadsheet for all the calcs, running to four worksheets, (One basic, and then one for each of the three Division Plates) is on EXCEL. Most of the results co-incide with the Vertex chart, but NOT ALL. It looks as if some errors are typos, and others, like the 13 Divisions one, of misreading handwritten figures (30 instead and 36 in this case)

If anyone wants this, it is for a 90:1, but can easily be amended for different ratios, (but check a few results against known "good" results, to be sure), send me a PM with an E mail address, and I'll forward it, (Its only 64Kb).

Unless Neil wants to put it on here?

Howard
24 February 2016 at 09:09 #226677
John Haine
Participant
@johnhaine32865
If only this site could host other file formats than jpg then this could be posted as a working spreadsheet, with an option to change the worm wheel count. How about it Neil?

By the way Howard, recent versions of Word have an option to "Save As" PDF.
24 February 2016 at 09:23 #226679
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
Howard's table is HERE

Thanks Howard,

Neil
24 February 2016 at 09:55 #226685
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 24/02/2016 09:23:52:

Howard's table is HERE

.

Thank you both

MichaelG.
24 February 2016 at 19:28 #226754
Kenneth Deighton
Participant
@kennethdeighton43272
Thank you gentlemen for the rapid response , I have printed it and will get my daughter to laminate it . Ken.
24 February 2016 at 19:56 #226763
Simon Williams 3
Participant
@simonwilliams3
Hello All, Good evening.

Are the hole counts for the plates supplied with a 40 tooth worm wheel conventionally the same as those shown for plates A,B,C in Howard's PDF?

I've got a BS0 head but it has a 40T wheel. The numbers of holes in the three plates that came with it happen to coincide with the A B and C plates Howard uses – is this accident or design?

Thanks in anticipation

Best rgds Simon
24 February 2016 at 21:12 #226776
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
Accident, I think – I remember reading that one of the popular dividing heads was supplied with a set of plates with hole numbers better suited to a different ratio.

Neil
24 February 2016 at 21:39 #226783
Bazyle
Participant
@bazyle
Regardless of the worm ratio what you need is prime numbers or multiple of primes working up from the bottom so the only differences tend to be which multiples you get. Some sets go for higher multiples if the plate is big enough to have room or mix them in a different way on the plates.
After the 3 in the table many suppliers also then did additional plates with primes working up from 51, 53, 57 etc

BTW while on the subject of errors the Victoria tables for differential indexing have a few errors so if you are using them to cut 201 and above call me – I think some gears have never ever been cut. Who wants 233 or 269 anyway?

Edited By Bazyle on 24/02/2016 21:50:15
24 February 2016 at 22:43 #226796
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
The spreadsheet was made up for the Vertex HV6 which has a 90:1 ratio, but presumably, copying the spreadsheet, and substituting another ratio for the "90" in the formula, would produce a set of results for a R T or D H with that particular ratio.

Today, using the figures from the spreadsheet, I have produced a fairly good looking 13T gear, so one calculation seems to be right!

Howard
27 February 2016 at 12:54 #227229
Bazyle
Participant
@bazyle
Just come across a website with a spreadsheet that can easily be used for any plates and any division. It uses a novel but simple way of presenting the info to show the multiple options. Choose the 'Threads……' download and the dividing tab .

It is just Excel so you can fiddle with it. It shows 270 holes on a 39 hole plate so you can modify it to do the divide by 39 and show the full turns and parts.

off top-ic he also has a gear ratio calculator but it assumes you have ALL the gears from 20 to 100.

Edited By Bazyle on 27/02/2016 12:55:14
27 February 2016 at 16:55 #227266
John Shepherd
Participant
@johnshepherd38883
Printed off the pdf but unfortunately, it still contains the same error for 13 divisions – i.e. 6 Turns + 30/39 and not 6 turns + 36/39.

The other two errors I am aware of on the original Vertex instructions for 7 divisions and 40 divisions are corrected on the pdf.

Regards

John Shepherd

Edited By John Shepherd on 27/02/2016 16:55:50
27 February 2016 at 18:11 #227287
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
Howard if you are able to confirm this error, I will upload a new pdf.

Thanks,

Neil
27 February 2016 at 20:01 #227302
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
Apologies to everyone!

Somehow, I managed to incorporate the very error that started this thread, because it has cost me so much time and material, and led to my making up the spreadsheet.

Have checked and E mailed a corrected version of the chart to Neil who will post it as a PDF.

13 divisions SHOULD read "6 turns and 36 holes on a 39 hole plate"

This is correct as I have now cut a good 13T gear, and it went into service yesterday.

Again, abject apologies.

Howard
1 March 2016 at 09:36 #227703
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
Howard has corrected his table and the article now links to a corrected PDF.

Users of other dividing heads will be interested in Christopher Taylor's spreadsheet HERE.

It can be customised to give solutions for any dividing head simply by changing the worm ratio and the numbers of holes available.

Thanks to both Christopher and Howard.

I will change the title of this thread slightly so users of other dividing heads as well as the HV6 can see it has useful information for them,

Neil
13 March 2016 at 10:26 #229693
Danny Hegh
Participant
@dannyhegh44921
as an apprentice I spent a lot of time on a mill cutting gears and sprockets the rules were do the calculations and get them checked by another take a cut of the first tooth just through enough to get the full depth of cut index the blank around 360 deg. and see if you wind up in the grove as it were.Takes a bit of time ,a bit of stress and the treasure chest getting too full.the problem is getting the chief of staff wised up on dividing head calcs
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