Sourcing small/light 1/3 HP Motors?

Advert

New Replies

Report Bug

Help/FAQs

Sourcing small/light 1/3 HP Motors?

This topic has 22 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 20 January 2013 at 12:34 by Ian S C.

Viewing 23 posts - 1 through 23 (of 23 total)

Author

Posts
15 January 2013 at 13:50 #108765
IanT
Participant
@iant
I've just built a small milling machine based on a Taig head – but find the single phase motors I currently have are either not powerful enough or too heavy for the current mounting I've designed (very similar to that used on the Taig mill itself).

It seems I might have to spend some of my ill gotten gains on a new motor – and one option might be a brushless DC motor (with controller) – as used by Sieg for instance. However, having managed to build the device for about £100 so far, I'm reluctant to spend too much.

Any ideas for where I might get about 1/3HP (or 200-300W or so) of compact, light motive power – either a new 'spare' (from a childs scooter or running machine perhaps?) – or maybe canabalised from a domestic applicance or similar for reasonable money? I wondered if anyone had found a good alternative source of such already and could advise?

And yes – I know I can get a 3 phase motor and controller for £300 but I could have also gone out and brought a mini-mill too – but I didn't !

Regards, Ian
Advert

15 January 2013 at 13:50 #16978
IanT
Participant
@iant
15 January 2013 at 14:02 #108767
Andyf
Participant
@andyf
Searching Ebay for "24V motor" turned up a number of possibilities, including this 250W one for a child's scooter. The same seller has a 300W version in his shop, and a 24V controller for about £15. Of course, you then need a 24V DC power supply, so costs begin to mount.

Andy
15 January 2013 at 15:19 #108771
Kevin Bennett
Participant
@kevinbennett25223
hi look at the seller Motor man

**LINK**

kevin
15 January 2013 at 17:26 #108780
john fletcher 1
Participant
@johnfletcher1
Have look at the local tip or car boot sale for childrens electric scooter, its usually the batteries which fail. I have used these motors to power 5" gauge 0-6-0 dock shunters and have never had a faulty motor or controller.I think a third horse single phase motor would be too heavy for what you are doing.Ted
16 January 2013 at 10:02 #108839
IanT
Participant
@iant
Thanks for your help guys – some leads to follow up.

BTW – You may be right about the 1/3Hp motor Ted – I've just looked at the Taig site and although they don't spec the 'standard' motor, they do rate the larger CNC 'upgrade' motor as 1/4HP @ 3400rpm (continuous duty) – and it's $80 in the US.

Regards,

IanT
16 January 2013 at 11:22 #108845
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
The last treadmill motor I had was well over 1hp in fact I think it was 1100W, at 200V DC, running at 5000rpm. Ian S C
16 January 2013 at 12:56 #108854
IanT
Participant
@iant
That might be overcooking it a bit I think Ian!

I can get a 3-phase 1/4HP on eBay for around the £56-60 mark but then would need an inverter too (another £100 or so). There didn't seem to be any single phase motors (at least from UK) in this size listed. I'd prefer a flange mounting too if possible although I could accomodate 'feet'.

The 24V 'scooter' motors are about the right price (£25-£30) in the 200-250W range but I'd need some form of PSU. The 1 phase motor I was going to use is about the right size and weight (it came from a power shower I believe) and runs quietly but doesn't seem to have enough power (it's not marked with a rating – so hard to tell what it is).

I think I'll continue looking but may have to change the drive arrangements so I can use one of my existing larger (and heavier) motors. Generally when it comes down to 'my time' or 'my money' – it's a bit of a no brainer (it's a hobby and fortunately I'm not trying to make a living doing this) but some issues are hard to avoid I guess.

Thanks for everyones advice.

Ian T
16 January 2013 at 13:22 #108862
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
The one you say may have come from a power show is possibly a shaded pole motor, a type of induction motor they tend to be low on efficiency, and power, I tryed one, think it was 1/6hp, on a toolpost grinder, but it had insufficient torque. Ian S C
16 January 2013 at 15:45 #108878
Durhambuilder
Participant
@durhambuilder
There are a few industrial sewing machine motors on ebay, if you could rig the foot pedal up with something a little more controlable you would get variable speed as well.

Julian
16 January 2013 at 15:51 #108879
joegib
Participant
@joegib
This Ebay seller (electricmotors2go) includes single-phase, 1/4HP(180W) motors in his range — see here:

Ebay Listing

You can change the power/speed/mount type using the drop-down boxes. Unfortunately, the IEC frame size is not clear. For, say, a 180W 2800 rpm motor I'd expect it to be IEC 63 but:

Motor Dimension Data

in the Seller's 'Shop' doesn't cover 180W motors. If you're interested it would probably be best to ring for clarification as an IEC 71 frame may be too bulky for your purposes. On the latter point you might want to check references on frame sizes to assess size suitability.

Are you sure you want flange mounting (B5)? For an IEC frame 63 or 71 the flange size may be something like 6"! Maybe face mouting (B14) would be better.

I had a 3-phase motor from this firm a couple of years ago. No probs with the transaction.

Joe

Edited By joegib on 16/01/2013 15:52:09
16 January 2013 at 16:03 #108881
Keith Long
Participant
@keithlong89920
Hi Ian

Have you seen this EBay item – item number 110998336925 – unfortunately the vendor doesn't give the power rating, but it might be worth making contact.

If "small and light" is the main consideration you might have to look at brush type motors which will run at higher speed and lower torque than an induction unit for the same power output, but will probably be smaller and lighter (and noisier!!). On that thought you might consider looking at the budget end of the power tool market to see what you can spot there. Most power tools fail by something other than the motor giving out – usually gears or some such. You would have to sort out a speed reduction step probably, but you'd still save on weight overall. Another possible source that comes to mind is Parvalux – but they will be quite pricey.

Brushless units as used in the current generation of mini mills and lathes are another small/ light option but with the associated control board won't be bargain basement.

Keith

Edited By Keith Long on 16/01/2013 16:05:22
17 January 2013 at 11:24 #108988
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
I was looking through my collection of motors, induction, brushed, 230V AC / DC, and low voltage. Amoung them some sewing machine motors, a Bernina one is only 40W, others 120W 160W, but one far easten one Sew Mor brand rated 1/2hp (I think it should be mouse power). Cake mixers etc are a possibility, they usually have electronic control these days, and I think they are often junked because of failure of plastic parts, the motor and mechanical parts seem OK. My kitchen wiz is 200W, the small Kenwood mixer 225W, don't know about the large Kenwood, I think my sister borrowed a couple of years ago. I stripped a Braun stick mixer a few years back, it has a 500W, 200V DC motor, about 35 mm dia X 75 mm L. Ian S C
17 January 2013 at 15:34 #109009
IanT
Participant
@iant
Thank you Ian SC for your earlier comment about 'shaded pole' motors (I had to look it up on Wikipedia!) – and lack of starting torque was what made me think the motor was underpowered.

However, your most recent posting has brought on another evil thought!

I'm sure SWMBO has a food mixer with a broken switch. I may have to offer to fix it for her and (if it seems to fit the bill) perhaps find that it is "beyond economic repair".

Regards,

IanT
17 January 2013 at 17:24 #109015
Andyf
Participant
@andyf
The hard to navigate Peatol website (that being the UK name for the Taig) mentions a 1/4HP Brook Crompton motor for £60 inc P&P. I don't think Taig/Peatol motors are variable speed, though. Elsewhere, it suggests a motor between 1/8 and 1/4HP (say 120W to 250W input power, to allow for losses).

Looking at the Cowells website, their vertical miller, which may be of similar size to yours, uses a Parvalux DC motor, 125W output (1/6HP), with a speed controller. I mention this only as an example of the sort of power needed; I'm not suggesting you invest in that particular setup unless you have deep pockets.

Andy.
18 January 2013 at 11:32 #109072
IanT
Participant
@iant
Thanks Andy,

I did look at the Peatol site but couldn't find any motors/pricing. I'll have another look.

(I've still not gone beyond the point of 'no-return' with the wife's mixer – although its 180W)

Regards,

IanT
18 January 2013 at 11:47 #109076
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
Just a thought, the motor I have on my Super Adept lathe is 180W shaded pole induction motor by IBM, I think it came from a cash register, or similar, think it's a 4 pole one, so runs at about 1800rpm.

The Kenwood Cheff up to at least 1987 had either 375W(very few), or 450W motors with a centrifugal speed control, newer ones are electronicly controled, and more powerfull, 600W, and up to 1100W.

Ian S C

Edited By Ian S C on 18/01/2013 12:02:45
18 January 2013 at 16:17 #109129
Keith Long
Participant
@keithlong89920
Would a motor from a bench grinder do the job, the 6 inch wheel machines are about 250 watt?

Keith
19 January 2013 at 11:04 #109202
IanT
Participant
@iant
I don't really know about the grinder Keith – but it's certainly an idea – I brought a small one a couple of years ago for about £20 (new) intended as the heart of a dedicated grinding set-up that hasn't quite been finished yet (I've a few of those I'm afraid!).

i've found the price list at Peatol now (thanks Andy) and that will remain an option if my other bodges fail. My wife now has a new mixer (truthfully the old one had a broken plastic switch that I couldn't easily repair – that's my story and I'm sticking to it). I've removed the motor from it but not done anything else with it so far. It look to be useful whether it ends up on the Taig or not (so good idea Ian SC).

My immediate job (a boiler test pump) needed a yoke machined but I managed that last night using the EW vertical slide and a simple adaptor plate I've made to fix it on the boring table. I do actually finish things occasionally, just not always in the order I originally planned. Bit by bit though you build up all those things that make life easier or figure out how to do things with what you have – and things start to move along more.

I already have a large mill in the Shed but I'm not going down there in this cold, partly because of my arthritis, I guess I'm very much a fair-weather machinist when it comes to cold Sheds.

Thank you again everyone for your advice.

Regards, Ian T
19 January 2013 at 11:14 #109203
Andyf
Participant
@andyf
Here's another potential bodge, Ian. Take a look at the penultimate picture. Hang up a variable speed mains electric drill, and use a flexible drive to connect it to your mill spindle.

Andy
19 January 2013 at 11:17 #109204
MICHAEL WILLIAMS
Participant
@michaelwilliams41215
Hello again Ian ,

What about some lateral thinking – use the set up found on Wolf-Jahn and BCA jig borers and drive from any available big motor in fixed position via articulating belt system .

Can work very well on small machines , give a huge range of speed alternatives and reduce the overhanging weight seen by the slideway .

Regards ,

Michael Williams .
19 January 2013 at 12:15 #109213
IanT
Participant
@iant
Andy – I already have a Proxxon flexible drive and one of those (unfinished) projects I mentioned is to set it up with some form of centre height holder (in the tool-post or vertical slide) but with a means to 'peck' as I will only use it with smaller drills. I also have a much heavier drive but I'm not sure how it would hold up to this type of application.

Michael – I've pondered quite a few variations on 'overheads' & other ways to provide a 'non-attached' drive source. I must admit, I've not had much luck with the round plastic belting that you join with a hot knife. It seemed to whip a lot and dosen't seem to take too kindly to smaller pulleys. My Cowells drill needs a new belt currently but I'm thinking about changing it to a more conventional set-up (rear motor/small V-belt) because of this problem. Of course, the belting problems could just be my own ineptitude – certainly wouldn't be the first time!

However a "Dwarf" drive (a la BCA) could be an option as I have other potential uses for the Taig head (and other tooling) and not all them will easily allow an attached motor. On the EW for instance – to horizontally mill work in the chuck.

It's immdiate incarnation (and the reason for this post) however is for mounting on the rear of the EW bed – so that work can be milled vertcally on the EW boring table. I've used my existing "large" vertcal slide as the basis of the milling fixture and this will already mount on the cross slide of my Super7 – so it will also hopefully find some use there. So a self-contained unit is more attractive with respect to the vertical application of the head (and it's already built with this in mind).

Regards, IanT
20 January 2013 at 12:34 #109368
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
A bigger framed motorcould be used by mounting it perhaps in the cupboard beneath the lathe.

My 5" grinder has a 340W, 2800rpm motor, but a 2 pole motor has a low starting torque, its a nice little motor though. Even the 600W motor on my 6" grinder is not great on its startup power. For torque with an induction motor, you really want capacitor start, and capacitor run. Most of the very small machines seem to use a brush type motor. Ian S C
Author

Posts