pillar drill advice

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pillar drill advice

This topic has 19 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 1 December 2012 at 17:45 by Cornish Jack.

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30 November 2012 at 00:00 #105050
David G
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@davidg
Hello

I'm looking for any advice on a reasonable pillar drill for less than £100.

The main use would be for wood or metal where I need the accuracy of my milling machine or the milling machine is setup for another task.

I've been looking around on the Internet and can see brands that I recognise(Clarke, Draper, Record, etc) and others that I've never heard of (SIP, Fox, Sealey).

I've also looked at what Chester Machine tools and Axminster have to offer. I've ruled out Chester as their range starts at 139+vat.

Axminster on the other hand have a woodworking pillar drill **Link**, I hope that linked ok and doesn't go under the adverts.., for £86 inc vat. This appears to be an Axminster own brand (lump of metal with their sticker on), has anyone seen one or owns one? There are reviews on their site that give reasonable feedback.

Axminster also do a range of Engineer's Pillar Drills, cheapest one starts at £131 inc vat LINK, yes i know this would budget stated at the top, but what is the difference to the wood working version other than a rack and pinion to raise and lower the table?

Are there alternatives that I have over looked ?

Dave G
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30 November 2012 at 00:00 #16944
David G
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@davidg
30 November 2012 at 01:52 #105052
russell
Participant
@russell
well, from the links given there are a few differences. (presimably, you meant to say you DONT need the accuracy..)

the 'engineer' drill has a lower bottom speed, higher top speed, bigger motor, bigger chuck and weighs almost twice as much:

therefore you could expect to: drill bigger holes in metal; drill small holes more happily; less flex (i am staggered how much my DP flexes when pushing a drill into steel). and height changing is a necessity, without the rack it would be a real nuisance. (but there are ways of overcoming that using counter balances or struts).

i've had a quick look at what is on offer locally (Oz) – in comparison your engineering one seems quite low priced, but the ones i've found have bigger motors (say 500-750 W) ,weigh much more, and have 16 speed. mind you, i set mine on a fairly low speed and have never changed it since…

i suppose it depends on what you want to do with it, how often, and whether you have other plans for the extra budget required.

-hope this helps.

russ
30 November 2012 at 06:18 #105056
joegib
Participant
@joegib
A few points:

1. Most of the Axminster reviewers seem to be woodworkers. Their requirements are likely to be less exacting than engineers. Certainly their workpieces are generally less weighty than the stuff we handle. Which brings me to …

2. The rack — as russell implies, don't regard the rack as a frippery. Say you want to rough bore a biggish lump of metal preparatory to finish boring in the lathe. You'll have the combined weight of the workpiece, maybe a machine vice to hold it safely plus the table weight as well. You'll probably need two hands just to support that lot and position the workpiece centre under the drill point. Where's the other hand needed to tighten the table clamp coming from? The rack is not only a convenience for raising/lowering the table — it acts as a brake preventing the whole lot crashing down the pillar when the clamp is loosened. I'd strongly recommend you don't buy a machine without a rack.

3. I'd also recommend you try to get to see your potential target buys — either in a tool dealers showroom or at an ME show. A basic test for me in assessing a drill is to loosen any quill lock, extend the drill quill fully, grasp its end and push it back and forth vigorously. If there's any play between the quill and its housing in the drill head, pass on by.

As regards particular brands I've no recent experience of buying a drilling machine — my first experience with far eastern drill was a disaster! Maybe others can nominate decent machines now on the market.

Joe

Edited By joegib on 30/11/2012 06:22:53
30 November 2012 at 07:56 #105058
David G
Participant
@davidg
Hi both

Yes, Russell, there should be a "DONT" with regards to the accuracy.

thanks for the thoughts and points, I was at the Model Engineering Exhibition at Leamington this year but forgot. I'm not too far from the Axminster Nuneaton so I might give them a call to see what they have on display.

Thanks

Dave
30 November 2012 at 12:49 #105079
John Coates
Participant
@johncoates48577
I'm saving up for a Scheppach but that is way above your budget. I'd looked at the Clarke ones from MachineMart when they have their "Save the VAT" offer but the fact the table was at a fixed distance from the column made me think "how will I do PCD's?"

The Scheppach head is a long round beam so it can be adjusted for angle and distance. It's under £400 but the delivery is £60. Ouch!

If we didn't have dreams life would be so dull
30 November 2012 at 13:35 #105083
Roderick Jenkins
Participant
@roderickjenkins93242
Posted by joegib on 30/11/2012 06:18:59:

A basic test for me in assessing a drill is to loosen any quill lock, extend the drill quill fully, grasp its end and push it back and forth vigorously. If there's any play between the quill and its housing in the drill head, pass on by.

I realise that what I am about to write is heresey, but here goes anyway: My experience based on a 1/2" capacity hobby drill which I 've had for 20 odd years (a Naerok) is that a bit slop in the quill doesn't really matter – in fact it may be a positive advantage. On the driling machine I drill into a centre pop. The drill bit finds its own centre in the pop. A bit of slop in the quill allows for some misalignement between the job and the drill axis. For the same reason I allow for some float in the drill vice by not bolting it to the table unless I'm drilling something hefty that might pick up and even then I'll usually start the hole before tightening every thing up. If want to co-ordinate drill to accurate locations then I use the mill.

I might add that the reason that I chose the Naerok in the first place was that it was one of the few in my price range that had a rack. This, together with the round, pivotting table, makes it very versatile for positioning jobs.

cheers,

Rod
30 November 2012 at 14:07 #105086
GaryM
Participant
@garym
Hi David,

I have the ED16SB from Axminster that you linked to but only bought it about a year ago. I've found it to be as good as I was expecting for a cheapish pillar drill bearing in mind that it was my first proper piece of workshop equipment. The equivalent woodworking drill is the WD16SB which was the same price when I bought mine but now seems to be quite a bit dearer. These two are identical apart from the table and the thing that is not obvious from the pictures is that the table on the woodworking drill has slots that go right through whereas the engineering one has T-slots. I think I might have found the woodworking table more useful in practice but I am a newbie.

Gary
30 November 2012 at 15:32 #105093
Ex contributor
Participant
@mgnbuk
The first machine tool we purchased at my previous employment was a floor standing, Sealy branded 12 speed, 2MT pillar dril. It was still in use over 25 years later – still operating with it's original Rexon branded chuck (though the key had been replaced several times). It had a couple of table elevation racks, due to my collegues "forgetting" to lock the table on occasions, but spares were cheap (under £10 IIRC) and available. Belts were a bit more problematic, as they appeared to be non-standard lengths, but one of our bearing suppliers sized replacements using the originals as samples. The machine was used often – frequently pushed to (or possibly beyond) it's limits – in a workshop environment. Should I have a requirement for such a machine for work or home, I would have no qualmes about buying a similar imported machine.

Regards,

Nigel B.
30 November 2012 at 15:44 #105094
colin hawes
Participant
@colinhawes85982
For a general purpose metalworking drilling machine you need the lowest bottom speed and the heaviest machine as the lower speed is better for the larger drillbits and the weight is able to dampen vibration more effectively. Colin
30 November 2012 at 16:19 #105096
WALLACE
Participant
@wallace
Don't forget the ebay option – usually quite a few pillar drills for sale – and can be cheap if you want something that's a bit older. I brought a Progress drill (morse taper 2 with a geared head ) for £120 which seemed quite a good buy – a little worn around the edges but at least the table didn't look like a piece of cheese !

Industrial ones are usually always 3 phase but it's not impossible to change – (although you may need a puller to get the pulley off the spindle) plus changing the electrics etc..

w.
30 November 2012 at 17:48 #105109
AB658
Participant
@ab658
John C – saving for a Scheppach.

Make sure you have played with one before committing. I bought an SIP "radial" floor stander 6 years ago, initially for woodwork. If the S. is similar, the amount of flex in the head, particularly when extended beyond halfway, might cause concern to someone seeking high accuracy.

Adrian
30 November 2012 at 18:45 #105113
Grizzly bear
Participant
@grizzlybear
Hi David,

For £60 there is a number of drills that would fit the bill. I've just purchased a Clarke Metalmaster S/H for £40 & happy. Saw a Draper, similar spec. in our local tool store Abran Tools @ £59.99 Looked Good. (After I had purchased of course).

Regards, Bear..
30 November 2012 at 18:50 #105114
Siddley
Participant
@siddley
I think Colin Hawes has hit the nail on the head – as heavy as possible and with the lowest speed.

My own pillar drill is a Clarke ( spit ) that is a weird size. It's only floorstanding if you are a midget and only bench sized if you are a 8ft tall basketball player who owns a workshop with a very high roof

Machine Mart is just about the last place I'd buy a machine tool from normally but I bought it in a rush to do one specific job some years ago and didn't mind if it broke afterwards. It hasn't broken and turned out OK. For once. Despite looking robust it has a lot of flex in it when drilling steel at over 12" diameter.
30 November 2012 at 19:51 #105125
frank brown
Participant
@frankbrown22225
My drill #1, was a Clarke thing, about £90 in 1980, it was sort of OK, though you could not use the top speed (2500) due to chuck run out. I bought an American lend /lease job second hand for £40, had it since about 1985, still great, and I can still use all the speeds.

For my other workshop, I bought a 16 speed Clarke machine second hand, as good as new for £100 a few years ago. Interestingly, the speed s jump from 720 RPM to 1500 RPM, I do miss 1000 (1/4" diam hole in steel) Else very good value.

Frank
30 November 2012 at 20:21 #105128
Sub Mandrel
Participant
@submandrel
I have a Clarke pillar dril l that cost about £36 for Machine Mart 12 or so years ago. The bottom of the range one.

It will drill up to 1/2" in steel, even bigger in sheet using a step drill. I have used it with drills smaller than #60 to drill PCBs. The quill wobbles a bit, although you can adjust it to remove slop.

In all that time the chuck fell off once (my fault, drilling big wobbly things) and I had to clean the contacts on the no voltage release switch six months ago.

The one thing I have never had trouble with 9to my surprise) is the table flexing or shifting under pressure.

There is one big fault – the handles keep coming loose, one day I will put thread lock on them!

If I need precision, I use the mill. I rarely drill with the mill. If it blew up today, I would feel I had got my money's worth. If I had to replace it, I would probably buy a slightly larger Clarke one.
1 December 2012 at 11:17 #105156
David G
Participant
@davidg
Thanks for all the feedback

I had intended to pop down to Axminster Nuneaton after work yesterday to have a look at their tools. They didn't have the ED16SB on display but the next model up so I could get an idea of the difference in quality to the WD13L,

Unfortunately the M1 was knackered and then traffic trough Hinckley to get to the A5 was at a stand still (the mere hint of mist made every one turn their fog lights on while sitting in a stationary queue of traffic), so my original plan to get to Nuneaton for just before 5 left me joining the A5 a little after 5:30. I might try again next week if I can get out on time.

I had tried to steer clear of the Clarke, Draper, etc because of some of the problems to look out for, although from reeding the above not everyone has experienced these problems. My father bought a basic Clarke DP several years(20ish) back and there is only a little play in the quill but the table flexes quite a bit, he lives over a 100 miles away so I can't easily pop round to borrow it.

My father in-law has an old DP, can't remember the make, and the amount of play in the quill was quite astonishing.

I guess in todays world that some of the cheaper tools are made out in the east somewhere and get a different brand sticker on depending who's going to sell them. I have a NuTools miller that looks exactly like a Clarke CMD1225D and a couple of other brands that I cant re-call.

Dave
1 December 2012 at 14:11 #105184
Siddley
Participant
@siddley
I looked at the website and it's the CDP401B I have. A bit out of your preferred price range, but I mention it to point out that even spending £270 on a Chinese Communist drill won't get you too much in the way of rigidity. Just so you know what to expect. It hasn't been a bad machine though and it's had some hammer.

I think your premise of wanting a seperate drill press to supplement your mill is very sound, I hope you find something that works well for you
1 December 2012 at 17:33 #105208
Sub Mandrel
Participant
@submandrel
Looking at the cat, mine is the bottom of the hobby range Ffor someone with a limited but not too-small budget the CDP-10B looks a big step up from the most basic models – rack to elevate the table, MT2 taper so you can swap chucks easily a 370W instead of 250W motor and 12 speeds instead of 5 (although you only really gain a couple of lower speeds).

I can't see any advantages the three most basic 'professional' drill presses have over this one. The main advantages of Siddley's are the worklight, bigger t-slotted table and a much higfher top speed for diddley holes.

I don't personally, think a drill press is as critical as other tools in the amateur workshop and as you have a mill to back it up…

Neil
1 December 2012 at 17:45 #105209
Cornish Jack
Participant
@cornishjack
Dave – might be worth looking around for something secondhand. My drill is a Fobco Star and it's built like the proverbial outhouse! Not the easiest to move around and i use a small car jack to raise the head , when necessary. Mine cost me £50 about 20 years ago and, surprisingly, O'Briens still supplied spares a couple of years ago. Cracking bit of kit

Rgds

Bill
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