Parting off using a powered cross feed

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Parting off using a powered cross feed

Home Forums Workshop Techniques Parting off using a powered cross feed

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 74 total)
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  • #638781
    JA
    Participant
      @ja

      Instead of hijacking the running thread on rear tool posts I have a simple question:

      How many people part off on a lathe with the cross feed powered instead of hand operating the feed?

      JA

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      #16433
      JA
      Participant
        @ja
        #638784
        SillyOldDuffer
        Moderator
          @sillyoldduffer

          Me, always! Failing to feed steadily is one of the main causes of digging in during parting off. Tentative, uncertain, jerky hand movements are begging for trouble. Power feed does a much better job than I do!

          I know it's hard for chaps born with steady hands to comprehend that others might be clumsy, but we are.

          Dave

          #638785
          Craig Brown
          Participant
            @craigbrown60096

            Depends on the job. Small parts hand feed but say 20mm+ then normally power feed. Start by hand to make sure nothing feels untoward and then engage the power feed. This is on a Boxford

            #638786
            JasonB
            Moderator
              @jasonb

              All the time for me too, leaves both hand free one to apply a bit of cutting fluid the other to catch the part.

              Edited By JasonB on 23/03/2023 12:00:09

              #638794
              Dave S
              Participant
                @daves59043

                Nearly always

                #638797
                Anonymous

                  Nearly always power feed on the centre lathe, minimum feedrate is 4 thou/rev, and usually 6 to 8 thou/rev. On the repetition lathe parting off is manual. But controlled by a lever not a screw thread and dial. Just pull hard on the lever to ensure a decent cut.

                  Andrew

                  #638799
                  Jelly
                  Participant
                    @jelly

                    Almost always, my lowest available feed rate is 0.03mm/rev, (or 1⅙ thou per rev in old money) so there's never a reason not to.

                    I will sometimes use manual feed on the first few parts if I'm if I'm making multiples of something small but with a high length to diameter ratio, but that usually means I'm trying to work out how fast I can feed without the part deflecting to select a feed rate.

                    Edited By Jelly on 23/03/2023 13:04:14

                    #638801
                    Martin Connelly
                    Participant
                      @martinconnelly55370

                      Not something I do a lot of but CNC so always power fed when it is done.

                      Martin C

                      #638804
                      Chris Evans 6
                      Participant
                        @chrisevans6

                        Nearly always, rear post 40mm EN1A diameter 800RPM feed 0.05/rev works well if the lube is plentiful. Nervy pussying around is a disaster.

                        #638821
                        ega
                        Participant
                          @ega

                          Nearly always on the Willson where this feature is available but never on my pre-PXF Myford.

                          When hand feeding it is sometimes helpful to use an extended handle for extra leverage and a smoother movement.

                          Instinctively, I feel that a lever-operated slide would work better than a screw for hand feeding.

                          #638865
                          Howard Lewis
                          Participant
                            @howardlewis46836

                            Almost always on the BL12 – 24.at 0.0025"/rev mubricated by brushing onand ordinary engine oil or soluble oil controlled feed through a needle valve.

                            On the mini, it has to be hand feed, but have just made and installed a rear toopost, so hope for betterb things.

                            Howard

                            Edited By Howard Lewis on 23/03/2023 18:35:38

                            #638869
                            JA
                            Participant
                              @ja

                              The reason I asked is in the past there has been some debate about the practice.

                              My present largish lathe is the first I have owned with a power cross feed. After I got it I happily used the powered feed for parting off until this was discussed in a forum. The opinion was that the practice was an absolute no-no. So I went back to using a hand feed.

                              Recently talking to others who know what they are doing I got the universal reply "Why give up using the power feed if you have never had problems".

                              The more I think about it using a hand feed is a sign of a lack of confidence and a power feed ensures the tool is continuously cutting.

                              Many thanks, and I am going back to using the power feed. There is always the big red button.

                              JA

                              #638876
                              Jelly
                              Participant
                                @jelly

                                Actually the thing I forgot to mention is matching the parting blade geometry to the material. It's something we think about all the time for other toolbits, but sometimes gets disregarded for parting blades.

                                I once did a job for a friend which involved lots of parting off in copper and some stringy horrible grade of brass, it was all a bit grabby unless I used a really slow feed, having quite a few to do, I specifically ground a parting tool with a small negative rake, and like magic I could suddenly feed at a much higher rate.

                                Similarly I have a brazed carbide parting tool which is preserved for stainless which is much wider (about 4.5mm) with a reasonably positive rake and chip breaker ground into the top face of the brazed insert, the shape helps reduce cutting pressure when taking the more aggressive feed rates needed to successfully cut stainless, whilst the thicker tool gives sufficient support for such heavy cutting forces.

                                #638888
                                SillyOldDuffer
                                Moderator
                                  @sillyoldduffer
                                  Posted by JA on 23/03/2023 19:12:58:

                                  The reason I asked is in the past there has been some debate about the practice.

                                  The more I think about it using a hand feed is a sign of a lack of confidence …

                                  JA

                                  An example of why the internet is double-edged, well-meaning folk getting it wrong! Parting-off under power is well over a century old, so any debate must be a recent glitch. As a beginner feeling my way into the hobby, common sense told me it was 'obviously' safer to feed by hand because I could stop at the first sign of trouble. Unlike a stupid machine that would cause terrible damage by ploughing regardless into the wreck. Of course 'common sense' is as thick as two short planks, and I was wrong. (Most of the trouble in my workshop is caused by me.)

                                  I suspect a bunch of newcomers tried to part off at a poorly chosen feed-rate, got into trouble, and blamed the machine rather than the clown driving it! And then compounded the mistake by publishing their incorrect conclusions on the internet so the whole world can benefit from it!

                                  Dave

                                  #638896
                                  Huub
                                  Participant
                                    @huub

                                    Power feed (CNC), upside down parting tool and lubrication is my way using a SP200 2 mm wide insert, 800 RPM (max to keep the lubrication on the part) and 0.02 mm/rev.

                                    After parting off years at these conditions on both my lathes, I recently started parting off steel dry to allow higher RPM (higher speed). I am not sure if this is a better condition, will try it for several weeks.

                                    #638897
                                    JohnF
                                    Participant
                                      @johnf59703

                                      Well I am amazed ! My answer is never — I always use manual feed and always have, indeed I don't recall any of my mentors or contemporaries in 60's onwards using power cross feed when parting off.

                                      Of course we never had the disposable tipped tooling that's available today and to be honest although I have tried these but I much prefer the standard HSS Eclipse blades. Steady feed, don't allow the tool to dwell when stopping and starting the advance, use plenty of oil or appropriate lube.

                                      Feel I'm out of step !!

                                      John

                                      #638902
                                      Huub
                                      Participant
                                        @huub
                                        Posted by JohnF on 23/03/2023 22:08:10:

                                        Well I am amazed !

                                        Feel I'm out of step !!

                                        John

                                        No you are not. Hand feeding can do the job also and if you are experienced and have good results why not.

                                        Some times I also use a 1.2 mm HSS parting blade in normal position and manual feed. When I have time, I will make a tool holder for a 2 mm HSS Co8 blade that I want to try.

                                        #638904
                                        Roger Williams 2
                                        Participant
                                          @rogerwilliams2

                                          Me too Johnf, always hand feed too. Ashamed to say thats on a DSG too . Will I ever be forgiven….

                                          #638924
                                          Chris Crew
                                          Participant
                                            @chriscrew66644

                                            "The opinion was that the practice was an absolute no-no. So I went back to using a hand feed."

                                            And that's exactly what it was, i.e. someone else's opinion. My own view is that there are no 'absolutes' in the privacy of your own workshop. If a technique works for you and produces a result that is acceptable to you, then you must be doing something right no matter how much 'inspector meticulous' may think otherwise. I have easily parted 5" noggins to make back plates for the Myford.

                                            My own approach to parting-off is to use a combination of both hand and power-feed. I don't have the luxury of choice on the Myford but on the Colchester I use both hand and power feed. I always part from the rear tool-post, which should be as large and rigid as the lathe will permit, I keep the tool kept as sharp as possible and I always pump coolant in to the cut. I accept that some people can't tolerate the thought of something containing water being allowed anywhere near their cherished machines, and I understand that to a certain extent and also that it can be a little messy if the stream hits the chuck, but to me it makes any cut so much smoother and it was standard practice in the machine shop where I was once an apprentice. I use a cheap soluble oil diluted about 25:1 with a squirt of Rocol coolant disinfectant that kills the black algae in the sump when the machines are not used for a while.

                                            #638935
                                            Nigel McBurney 1
                                            Participant
                                              @nigelmcburney1

                                              While I was at work and later on my visits as a procurement engineer to lots of UK machine shopsI can never recall seeing anyone using power feed to part off on a centre lathe ,and I never do now at home with my Colchester, the Ward capstan lathe where i once worked,never had power feed,and the capstan lathe was a real production machine in days gone by, though I suspect that manual winding of the cross slide was quicker,as the parting tool usually at the rear had to be kept well to the rear in order to clear the tools on the capstan turret,so the operator had to wind the handle quickly up to the work then slow down the hand feeding when actually parting off ,rather than wind fast then stop engage a clutch and part off . Of course at the same time the high volume turret auto lathes were enclosed and cam driven so a cam could drive the parting tool up to the work very quickly and slow automatically for the actual parting, plus the fact they were designed to do that job and were very rigid. and the same can occurr on modern cnc machines where there are no handles to wind. When HSS was in common use the general rule was to reduce cutting speed by half when parting.A pumped flow of coolant helps a lot particularly on steel,

                                              #638937
                                              Phil Lingham
                                              Participant
                                                @phillingham79132

                                                By hand here too – because that's how I was taught in college at the start of my apprenticeship back in 1973!

                                                Fortunately I'm blessed with a steady hand and pretty good "feel" so don't seem to suffer with some of the problems others have described. Think I might have a go with power feed now though particularly as I have been very impressed with the insert parting tool I now have – never too old learn a new trick after all. Having said that I seem to mostly work with stainless or aluminium which often sticks to the tool.

                                                #638942
                                                Hopper
                                                Participant
                                                  @hopper

                                                  No choice: the ML7 has no power cross feed. The only time I have ever snapped a blade was feeding in hard and fast without stopping, using a non-inverted parting tool. So, back to inverted and backing off regularly to clear the chips and cool the tip. Plenty oil too.

                                                  #638953
                                                  John Haine
                                                  Participant
                                                    @johnhaine32865

                                                    If I recall correctly it is the G H Thomas workshop manual book, where he describes a rear toolpost, that recommends parting off using power feed. Apparently he used to gives demos on a Super7 at exhibitions.

                                                    #638957
                                                    Niels Abildgaard
                                                    Participant
                                                      @nielsabildgaard33719
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