Weight driven clockwork roasting spit

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Weight driven clockwork roasting spit

Home Forums Workshop Techniques Weight driven clockwork roasting spit

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  • #621687
    ANDY CAWLEY
    Participant
      @andycawley24921

      beb40ed4-cd68-4470-a876-2844075e8a8f.jpegThis is a photo of a weight driven clockwork spit (somehow or other it got up loaded on its side, sorry,) that I have a mind to make. The speed regulating “fly?”is driven by a helical wheel engaging an appropriate spiral pinion.

      88dd27d1-844e-4011-9cc1-9b0e4dfe7a54.jpeg
      This has come out on its side😠 as well.
      The pitch of the spiral is about 5/16”, it’s major diameter is about 5/8” and the minor diameter5/16”.
      My guess that the spit is 18th century and might be French, these are only guesses.
      All of the other pinions are lantern pinions and I can get my head round those but how is a spiral, if that is the right word, made.

      Does anybody out there have any ideas an if necessary correct my terminology as my Google searching has been fruitless. I have found many pictures of clockwork spits but no information about manufacturing a spiral pinion.

      Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 18/11/2022 17:48:24

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      #16411
      ANDY CAWLEY
      Participant
        @andycawley24921
        #621689
        Michael Gilligan
        Participant
          @michaelgilligan61133

          It doesn’t answer the question of ‘how to make’ … but I think you will have better luck searching for worm and worm-wheel … because ‘loose’ as it may be, that’s what you have.

          MichaelG.

          .

          Edit: __ it hasn’t evolved very far from Leonardo’s design

          .

          9be1958b-e786-4292-8fb7-231c82f654ce.jpeg

          .

          Ref. __ https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/978-1-4020-5599-7_2.pdf

          Edited By Michael Gilligan on 18/11/2022 17:25:58

          #621713
          david bennett 8
          Participant
            @davidbennett8

            I should think the one you pictured was sawn /chiselled /filed. Finer examples, as in music boxes, were spiral milled.

            ( It might be worth asking on a blacksmith  forum )

            dave8

            Edited By david bennett 8 on 18/11/2022 20:27:34

            #621715
            ChrisLH
            Participant
              @chrislh

              Curiously OD of the worm has a double taper – but in the wrong direction if you were hoping to maximise worm/wheel contact. So maybe they were trying to minimise the w/w contact so that pitch mismatch wouldn't stop the job ?

              #621728
              ANDY CAWLEY
              Participant
                @andycawley24921

                Michael Gillian, thank you for the worm thought, why didn’t I think of that🤔✅.

                Chris LH, the unusual feature of this device is that the worm is driven whereas in most applications the worm is the driver.

                #621732
                Michael Gilligan
                Participant
                  @michaelgilligan61133

                  A very interesting machine, Andy … do please keep us advised of your progress !

                  MichaelG.

                  #621736
                  Michael Gilligan
                  Participant
                    @michaelgilligan61133
                    #621737
                    Bazyle
                    Participant
                      @bazyle

                      Probably easier to make on a treadle lathe with a very slow speed. Wrap a piece of string around it to mark the spiral, mark with paint that will go into the gaps in the turns of string. Follow the path with a file hand forming a rough groove. As you get some definition for the groove the file will follow it under power. Just a version of hand chasing a thread.

                      #621739
                      Dick H
                      Participant
                        @dickh

                        Am I daft,? in order to get this to run you need to spin the "fly" by hand, and when it stops spinning the spit will stop rotating.

                        #621764
                        Mike Hurley
                        Participant
                          @mikehurley60381

                          No Dick you aren't daft, this is bugging me as well! It doesn't appear to work like a clock escapement but the rotation of the 3 armed fly would control the overall speed. But if you have to rotate this manually – what's the point? It would be easier to have a peasant with a crank handle attached to the ox or whatever?

                          #621765
                          ANDY CAWLEY
                          Participant
                            @andycawley24921
                            Posted by Dick H on 18/11/2022 23:49:32:

                            Am I daft,? in order to get this to run you need to spin the "fly" by hand, and when it stops spinning the spit will stop rotating.

                            I haven’t actually operated it yet but my understanding is that it runs powered by a weight on a rope wrapped round the wooden drum. The fly is there to keep the speed down presumably by air resistance. There is a neat arrangement that rings the bell when when the. Rope is nearly all run off the drum thus warning the cook to rewind the rope.

                            #621767
                            Circlip
                            Participant
                              @circlip

                              And don't forget the nay sayers that state a worm cannot be driven by a wheel.

                              Regards Ian.

                              #621769
                              noel shelley
                              Participant
                                @noelshelley55608

                                Like Dick and Mike I fail to see how it can work, unless the fly is turned , UNLESS the helix angle can impart some power to the fly ? Looks more to me like a striking train ? Noel.

                                #621772
                                roy entwistle
                                Participant
                                  @royentwistle24699

                                  I've seen one of these working but sorry I can't remember where. 

                                  Edited By roy entwistle on 19/11/2022 11:26:58

                                  #621778
                                  Circlip
                                  Participant
                                    @circlip

                                    Probably in a BIG kitchen. Stately homes springs (?) to mind.

                                    Regards Ian.

                                    #621781
                                    ANDY CAWLEY
                                    Participant
                                      @andycawley24921
                                      Posted by Circlip on 19/11/2022 12:03:04:

                                      Probably in a BIG kitchen. Stately homes springs (?) to mind.

                                      Regards Ian.

                                      This one’s actually in my shed! I can see I’ll have to cobble up some method of getting it working😉

                                      #621784
                                      ChrisLH
                                      Participant
                                        @chrislh

                                        Noel S,

                                        Fly mechanism driven by a fast worm is common in music box clokwork where it's self starting. Less crude construction and finish though.

                                        #621789
                                        Michael Gilligan
                                        Participant
                                          @michaelgilligan61133
                                          Posted by Circlip on 19/11/2022 11:10:38:

                                          And don't forget the nay sayers that state a worm cannot be driven by a wheel.

                                          Regards Ian.

                                          dont know

                                          But the nay-sayers don’t understand, and therefore generalise too much.

                                          MichaelG.

                                          #621810
                                          duncan webster 1
                                          Participant
                                            @duncanwebster1

                                            lots of early automotive back axles had worm/wheel. They backdrive fine as long as the ratio isn't too high. I'm aware of several narrow gauge locos that use 5:1 worms as final drive, no problem

                                            #621814
                                            ChrisLH
                                            Participant
                                              @chrislh

                                              And rear wheel drive Peugeot cars up until they went FWD, don't know how many start worms though.

                                              #621817
                                              Dick H
                                              Participant
                                                @dickh

                                                Live and learn. It seems to have something to do with the pitch or angle of the threads on the worm. (SeeCog drives worm) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykeiByIel64&t=299s). I´m sure there are better illustrations out there.

                                                #621819
                                                Mike Hurley
                                                Participant
                                                  @mikehurley60381

                                                  https://youtu.be/vwF6z2tJHVA shows a similar setup in operation

                                                  #621827
                                                  Mike Hurley
                                                  Participant
                                                    @mikehurley60381

                                                    Sorry, mean to insert a link there. This short video clearly shows that a gear will move a worm as it does initially, albeit with a bit of manual help to get things going. Antique spit roaster

                                                    In days gone by, I wonder how many kitchen skivvies have had a thump around the head from that flying arm whizzing round at a rate of knots? No health & safety back then…

                                                    Regards Mike

                                                    #621948
                                                    david bennett 8
                                                    Participant
                                                      @davidbennett8

                                                      There are down-loadable copies of Joseph Moxon's "Mechanics Excercises" contemporary book with detailed instructions for making these machines.

                                                      dave8

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