Chuck backplate from steel weldment?

Advert

Chuck backplate from steel weldment?

Home Forums Workshop Techniques Chuck backplate from steel weldment?

Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #16364
    MikeK
    Participant
      @mikek40713
      Advert
      #590033
      MikeK
      Participant
        @mikek40713

        The $45 price for a cast iron chuck backplate to my door has me wondering if I would be fine welding up a couple pieces of 1/4" scrap mild steel and then stress relieving it in the oven for an hour or so. This will be for mounting my 3" mini-lathe chuck to my 4" rotary table. Any reason not to do this?

        Mike

        #590035
        Emgee
        Participant
          @emgee

          Mike

          Why not cut a 4" diameter piece and drill to suit fixing to the chuck with c/s head screws and then drill to screw to the table tee slots using longer than normal tee nut pieces.

          You can use separate pieces for locating the chuck register and to provide an arbor to locate the table centre.

          Emgee

          Edited By Emgee on 15/03/2022 20:59:49

          spelling corrections

          Edited By Emgee on 15/03/2022 21:01:39

          #590037
          MikeK
          Participant
            @mikek40713

            Hi Emgee,

            I assumed that 1/4" steel wasn't thick enough, given that the cast iron back plate for sale is 5/8" thick with another 1/8" for the chuck register.

            Mike

            #590043
            Emgee
            Participant
              @emgee

              Hi Mike

              You will be screwing the plate to the chuck and all will be as one unit as the table,plate and chuck all make contact, If it didn't work out to be rigid enough you can always double up the plate.

              Emgee

              #590045
              John Haine
              Participant
                @johnhaine32865

                Backplate only needed to adapt chuck fitting to table, it will add hardly any rigidity and just eat daylight. For my 6" RT I have drilled and tapped 4 M10 holes in the table top, so I can remove my 4J chuck from its backplate and bolt to the table. So, you adapt your 3J to fit so you have the basic runout in the chuck plus any inaccuracy in the adapter, the work doesn't run true, what do you do then? A 4 jaw is easier to fit and you can adjust for concentricity.

                #590048
                Nicholas Farr
                Participant
                  @nicholasfarr14254

                  Hi MikeK, nothing wrong with welding steel plate, but you will be wasting money trying to stress relive it in your oven, assuming you are talking about a domestic oven, as it won't get hot enough. Stress relieving steel starts at around 600 C.

                  graph01.jpg

                  Regards Nick.

                  #590049
                  MikeK
                  Participant
                    @mikek40713

                    Thanks, guys!

                    #590051
                    MikeK
                    Participant
                      @mikek40713

                      So, if I make this out of steel…don't bother stress relieving it? I just thought the welding would do a number on it. I do have some thick plates of aluminum, plenty big enough…though the registration boss will probably take a beating with mounting and dismounting. Maybe I should just spend the $45.

                      Mike

                      #590052
                      David-Clark 1
                      Participant
                        @david-clark1

                        Just use a steel billet. Maybe a weight from a weight lifting set if the note is small is small enough.

                        This seller on eBay does an 80 mm a 40 mm billet for £9 with £6 postage.
                        (Search his other listings.) He may be able to cut the size you need,

                        Other sellers are available.

                        #590070
                        MikeK
                        Participant
                          @mikek40713

                          I found a 4" x 1/2" steel disc on eBay for under $8US. That should do the trick. A36 steel shouldn't need any stress relieving so that's good. It would be nice if I could fit my 4-jaw on my rotary table, but both are 4" so that's out.

                          Mike

                          #590073
                          Thor 🇳🇴
                          Participant
                            @thor

                            Hi Mike,

                            I have done the same as you want to do, mount a 3-jaw SC chuck on my Rotary Table. I used a 10mm thick plate of mild steel. I drilled 4 holes so it could bemounted on my RT, first I drilled tapping size holes and tapped them. Then I could mount the workpiece on the lathe faceplate and face each side and turn the spigot for the chuck. I have used this chuck for over a decade. Good luck.

                            Thor

                            #590083
                            SillyOldDuffer
                            Moderator
                              @sillyoldduffer

                              Couple of things going on here:

                              1. Mild-steel versus Cast-iron. In theory cast-iron is better for this application because it absorbs vibration, whereas steel 'rings'.
                              2. There's a risk welding will deform a plate made by joining bits mild-steel together, especially if the welder is semi-skilled. Distortion is hard to correct if it happens.

                              In practice, I doubt the difference between dead cast-iron and ringing steel matters much on a Rotary Table.

                              Making the plate from a lump of metal big enough in the first place rather than welding avoids the risk and the cost of fixing it if it goes wrong. If welding goes well, Mike will save money. If it goes very badly, a waste of time and money. Mild distortion might not be difficult to fix, so another win. The method is unreliable.

                              Problem with a heat-warped precision item is how to fix it. A domestic oven isn't hot enough because relief soaking requires higher temperatures for several hours. Heating with a torch requires judgement. The warped item could be machined to shape, but it might move again due to stress relief. Certainly not impossible, but more unpredictable than I care for.

                              Have to confess I'm partly negative because I don't enjoy this type of problem solving and would rather buy my way out of trouble by paying for a suitable cast-iron or mild-steel disc. Others would relish the challenge and delight in the experience. I don't think there's a straightforward answer. It comes down to what Mike has to hand and his appetite for adventure. Be good to know how it works out, dazzling triumph, miserable failure, or 'good enough'!

                              Dave

                              #590095
                              Andrew Tinsley
                              Participant
                                @andrewtinsley63637

                                Ketan at ARC spent some time on the phone to me, talking about cast iron versus steel for back plate use. He maintained that steel was just fine in this application and he knows the business.

                                Andrew.

                                #590097
                                ega
                                Participant
                                  @ega

                                  MikeK:

                                  I would encourage you to try the weldment approach. Here is one I made to rescue a condemned hobby drill press:

                                  dscn2122.jpg

                                  Rough turning the disc and tube allows easy vee joint preparation and after welding the result is re-machined (mine hasn't quite cleaned up).

                                  #590101
                                  Hopper
                                  Participant
                                    @hopper

                                    I fabricated my Versatile Dividing Head body from steel welded together. Stress relieved it by heating up to a dull red with a 1" propane torch and some fire bricks then buried it in a bucket of lime to cool slowly.

                                    But for your chuck mount on rotary table, your bit of unwelded flat steel plate should work ok as is.

                                    Cast iron has the other advantage of being more resistant to deformation than steel under compression. But the main reason it is used for things like chuck backplates I think is mostly cost. Cast iron for odd shapes is the cheapest way to go.

                                    I want to put a new Sanou or similar chuck on my old Myford, which will require a backing plate, which I can not buy in Australia. With the current UK import shipping delay to Australia being two months due to Covid backlog at customs, I will be welding two discs of steel together, stress relieving as above, and machining it to fit. As Ketan has told others above, it should be just fine. Many of the chuck bodies themselves these days are steel and seem to also be just fine.

                                    #590114
                                    MikeK
                                    Participant
                                      @mikek40713

                                      Thanks for your experience, Thor…I endeavor to match it.

                                      Thanks, Dave. Experience is a good teacher…Would have liked to do this with welding, as I wouldn't need to buy anything, but I'm going to give it a go with an eBay lump. Vendor says the disc is plasma cut under water so it should be ready for my machinations.

                                      #590116
                                      David-Clark 1
                                      Participant
                                        @david-clark1

                                        Hi Andrew,

                                        Ketan’s backplates are fine, I have used them before and am about to order 2 more if the price is still reasonable.

                                        Not ordered anything model engineering related from anybody for 8 years

                                        #590118
                                        MikeK
                                        Participant
                                          @mikek40713

                                          Thanks, Andrew, ega, and Hopper.

                                        Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)
                                        • Please log in to reply to this topic. Registering is free and easy using the links on the menu at the top of this page.

                                        Advert

                                        Latest Replies

                                        Home Forums Workshop Techniques Topics

                                        Viewing 25 topics - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)
                                        Viewing 25 topics - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)

                                        View full reply list.

                                        Advert

                                        Newsletter Sign-up