To ER is human but ER collets could be divine

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To ER is human but ER collets could be divine

Home Forums Workshop Techniques To ER is human but ER collets could be divine

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)
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  • #550419
    Stuart Munro 1
    Participant
      @stuartmunro1

      Thanks to much help on a previous topic, I've decided to investigate purchasing a set of ER collets for my Sherline lathe.

      Sherline make a specific spindle to take ER 16 collets but to us this I would have to strip out the MT1 spindle and replace or adjust all of my other fittings.

      RGD tools are offering a competitive (cheap!) set of 10 ER 16 collets with an MT1 taper. Am I right to assume that I could simply fir the collets to my Sherline (MT1 spindle). Seems too simple a solution.

      Stuart

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      #16290
      Stuart Munro 1
      Participant
        @stuartmunro1

        Fitting ER collets to a Sherline lathe spindle

        #550420
        Stuart Munro 1
        Participant
          @stuartmunro1

          Sorry, not clear – the RGD set includes a MT1 taper, drawbar and ER 'nut' plus the 10 ER collets – all for about £60!

          #550421
          Vic
          Participant
            @vic

            Direct fit collet chucks normally allow you to pass stock right through the head stock which can be very handy. Morse taper shanked chucks work fine but should be secured with a draw bolt.

            #550422
            Stuart Munro 1
            Participant
              @stuartmunro1

              So my only real drawback is not being able to pass stock through, Thanks Vic. Looks like £60 well spent even it I cant use the collets in every situation.

              Stuart

              #550423
              John Haine
              Participant
                @johnhaine32865

                RDG not RGD.

                Ideally you would have an ER16 chuck that screws on to the 3/4" thread on the headstock – something like this one from Taig:

                **LINK**

                1045ER ER 16 Adapter for 3/4-16 spindle

                Others are available.

                That way you spend a lot less ($30 plays $200 at US prices), can carry on using all your MT1 tooling, and pass longer stock through the chuck into the spindle.

                MT to ER chucks are really for milling.

                #550428
                John Haine
                Participant
                  @johnhaine32865
                  #550431
                  Stuart Munro 1
                  Participant
                    @stuartmunro1

                    John,

                    Thanks – the ARC Euro ER 16 chuck looks interesting. I already have n unused backplate that came with my lathe so its just a case of machining it to accept the ER chuck. Great idea and even cheaper than the RDG set.

                    I confess to being a bit unsure about 'cheap' sets anyway. Not sure of the quality although other things bought from RDG have been fine.

                    Stuart

                    #550435
                    KWIL
                    Participant
                      @kwil

                      Things bought from Arc Euro will also be fine, good supportive supplier.

                      #550436
                      duncan webster 1
                      Participant
                        @duncanwebster1

                        I know this is a wild goose chase, but my very early Cowells has M14*1.5 spindle nose. Anyone got any idea where I'd buy an adaptor like the one John Haine linked? I could make a new spindle, but then existing chucks etc wouldn't fit. I don't anticipate working up the energy to make an adaptor any time soon.

                        #550453
                        Howard Lewis
                        Participant
                          @howardlewis46836

                          Hi Duncan,

                          Pity, about the 1.5 mm pitch. Arc Euro do 14 x 1 backplates for Cowells /Unimat

                          Looks like you are in Catch 22, needing a means of holding a backplate blank, over 62 mm daimeter, so that you can bore and screwcut for the 14 mm spindle thread and register

                          Having bought a ER chuck on a backplate, with collets and a spanner, you are ready to "personalise" your backplate.the

                          As you know, your backplate is reversed to be faced and the OD turned to match that of the collet chuck, before spotting through the ER backplate to drill and tap for the fixings

                          It would be too much to hope that the actual ER 16 backplate would be soft enough to be bored to 12.5 mm, and screwcut to save space. Presumably clamped on to a bar set to run true in a 4 jaw

                          Howard,.

                          #550473
                          DC31k
                          Participant
                            @dc31k

                            Please look up Axminster Junior chuck.

                            ER20, will fit Taig spindle at 3/4-16 so should also fit Sherline.

                            In the past, Axminster would make you an adaptor for this chuck, so if this service is still offered, the M14 x 1.5 might be possible.

                            #550511
                            Nigel Graham 2
                            Participant
                              @nigelgraham2

                              If you need make a backplate, M14 X 1 and 1.5mm taps are available.

                              #550524
                              Stuart Munro 1
                              Participant
                                @stuartmunro1

                                Thanks guys – I can now see that the ARC Euro combination of Taig backplate and ER16 collet chuck are designed to fit each other. And s DC31K says, the Taig uses the same thread as Shirline – my problem solved at around £35.

                                Plus a selection of ER Collets!

                                Stuart

                                #550525
                                John Haine
                                Participant
                                  @johnhaine32865

                                  I think you'll find that you still have to turn the register on the backplate to fit – I certainly did on my Unimat.

                                  #550555
                                  Stuart Munro 1
                                  Participant
                                    @stuartmunro1

                                    John,

                                    As a life long office worker I'm still quite new to this engineering stuff so please excuse me asking something that is probably blindingly obvious.

                                    The ARC Euro Taig Backplate comes in 3 varieties; blanc, 4 point fix and 2X3 point fix (making 6 holes in a circle).

                                    The ER 16 Lathe Chuck Collet has a 43mm register diameter, 5mm register depth, and a 'PCD' of 51.5mm.

                                    The 2X3 point fixing Taig Backplate has a 44mm register diameter but looks to have compatible fixing hole positions and sizes. (PCD of 51.5mm, 5.5mm clearance holes leading to 0.8mm depth on M5 thread)

                                    So presumably the 'registering' is facing the backplate so that it is smooth. If that's the operation you refer to then it should be no problem but the ARC Euro site and your observation make me think there is more to this that I think.

                                    Is that so?

                                    Stuart

                                    #550557
                                    Stuart Munro 1
                                    Participant
                                      @stuartmunro1

                                      Ah – found a MEW article from 2008 where it has become obvious that the chuck must sit on the backplate perfectly perpendicular to the axis and of course, the fixing holes need to be precisely positioned. But is the 3 fixing holes are already made then a 'facing' operation carried out on the lathe should leave the backplate face perpendicular to its axis.

                                      The article talks about the middle of the backplate being recessed so that the chuck sits only on a circle where the fixing bolts are. Or am I reading this wrongly?

                                      Stuart

                                      #550559
                                      John Haine
                                      Participant
                                        @johnhaine32865

                                        The back of the chuck is recessed and the periphery of the recess should be concentric to the chuck. There needs to be a "spigot" on the backplate, that is a "raised" portion from the centre to a radius that fits snugly into the recess, to centre the chuck on the backplate. I think there is probably already a spigot machined but the diameter will be too large.

                                        The idea is to fit the backplate to your lathe, turn the spigot to the exact diameter to fit the chuck and also face the outer "flange" (the bit where the mounting holes are) so it is perpendicular to the spindle axis. The spigot "height" should be slightly less than the depth of the recess. The mounting holes will have a clearance so the chuck position is fixed by the spigot and the outer flange, you can't rely on them to centre the chuck. It's a slightly tricky job but good practice!

                                        #550563
                                        Stuart Munro 1
                                        Participant
                                          @stuartmunro1

                                          John,

                                          That all makes sense – you should re-write the article for MEW. The original is good but assumes more than a basic knowledge such as mine!

                                          Stuart

                                          #550564
                                          Stuart Munro 1
                                          Participant
                                            @stuartmunro1

                                            ps – So if I got my hands on a Taig ER16 collet holder – which threads onto a 3/4 16 Sherline thread – I would not even need to register it.

                                            But as you point out – Registering would be good practice….

                                            Stuart

                                            #550565
                                            Peter Cook 6
                                            Participant
                                              @petercook6

                                              Try Peatol (Peatol Machine Tools). Currently offering the Taig ER16 adapter P/N 1045ER for £42.00 plus £4.00 post and packing. The price list was updated on the 18th May this year.

                                              I haven't used them – I got my lathe ( with the native ER spindle) direct from Taig in the US – they are very helpful but carriage can kill you.

                                              #550569
                                              Howard Lewis
                                              Participant
                                                @howardlewis46836

                                                In case there is any confusion.

                                                Adding a backplate for a chuck will involve two registers.

                                                One will be register that locates the backplate to the Mandrel of the lathe. The back of the register recess needs to be perpendicular ("square" ) to the ID off the backplate register to ensure that the bacfkplate runs as true as possible, and as repeatably, as possible, to the axis of the Mandrel. .

                                                The second register is that the O D needs to be turned to provide an accurate register for the chuck destined to be fitted to that backplate.

                                                It is essential that the chuck is located accurately along the lathe axis, not an angle to it.

                                                So the backplate needs to be faced so that the chuck is located both radially and axially.

                                                A prefinished backplate should have the register meeting these conditions, so that it only needs the OD to be machined to size, and faced.

                                                Howard

                                                #550573
                                                John Haine
                                                Participant
                                                  @johnhaine32865

                                                  Well that's cleared things up then!

                                                  #550582
                                                  Stuart Munro 1
                                                  Participant
                                                    @stuartmunro1

                                                    Peter,

                                                    Thanks for the info on Peatol Machine Tools – I saw this yesterday but of course there was no one around to ask about supply and price. A US modellers site claims this to be very accurate on a Sherline!

                                                    This adaptor looks to be the solution; The idea of registering a chuck to a backplate looks interesting but I'm unsure about my skill level and right now, the time it would probably take me.

                                                    As to importing – I sometimes buy Sherline components direct from the US – found a site that will list them on eBay and ship through eBays' international shipping. You still pay the UK taxes – import duties and VAT – but not any US ones. Shipping comes out reasonable (not cheap but acceptable).

                                                    #550592
                                                    duncan webster 1
                                                    Participant
                                                      @duncanwebster1
                                                      Posted by DC31k on 19/06/2021 18:13:50:

                                                      Please look up Axminster Junior chuck.

                                                      ER20, will fit Taig spindle at 3/4-16 so should also fit Sherline.

                                                      In the past, Axminster would make you an adaptor for this chuck, so if this service is still offered, the M14 x 1.5 might be possible.

                                                      I can find ER20 with M14*1.5 on ebay, but I'm after ER16 as I already have the collets. I'm not desperate enough to but another set! I'll keep my eyes open on ebay for an old faceplate and fit a flange mounted one

                                                      Thanks for the suggestions

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