Opening a Port

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Opening a Port

This topic has 26 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 2 January 2020 at 09:52 by Stueeee.

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31 December 2019 at 07:44 #443992
martyn nutland
Participant
@martynnutland79495
A Peaceful and Healthy 2020 to All

A very simple question…I need to enlarge the inlet ports on my Austin Seven exhaust manifold. It's cast iron of course. Would you recommend doing this with an end mill, slot drill or with a stone (perhaps even with a Dremel attachment).

Many thanks in advance.

Martyn
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31 December 2019 at 07:44 #16124
martyn nutland
Participant
@martynnutland79495
Mill or Grind
31 December 2019 at 07:50 #443993
John Haine
Participant
@johnhaine32865
Unless you can clamp it to the mill table don't even think of using an endmill or slot drill, it will be uncontrollable.

A rotary burr or grinding point may work.

Inlet ports on exhaust?
31 December 2019 at 08:03 #443997
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Well the exhaust gasses must go IN one end and out the other

The exhaust and inlet manifold is all one casting so could well be in inlet tract that is being worked on.

Die grinder would be best but Dremel will do, carbide burrs for heavy removal and then smooth with a stone one.

Edited By JasonB on 31/12/2019 10:14:22
31 December 2019 at 08:24 #443998
Henry Brown
Participant
@henrybrown95529
Look for a 6mm Foredom on ebay, not cheap but with the correct burrs for ci you will be fine. I always buy Garryson, the cheap ones often don't last long.
31 December 2019 at 08:30 #443999
Brian H
Participant
@brianh50089
There are several questions here;

Why do you want to enlarge the ports? unless you are building a 750 racing engine.

How much metal do you want to remove?

Why mess with prewar components? surly the idea of owning a prewar car is to keep it as original as possible.

Brian
31 December 2019 at 09:04 #444001
James Alford
Participant
@jamesalford67616
Ian,

It may be worth having a chat with Ian at Oxfordshire Sevens **LINK**. I know that he has been rebuilding and tuning a fair few Austin Seven engines of late and testing them on a dynamometer. He has also built a few successful racing Seven engines. He may be able to give you some suggestions.

Regards,

Jamie.
31 December 2019 at 10:42 #444008
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
Simply matching the areas of the ports might be a better term. Matching to the head will not greatly alter the power but may well help the economy. Many manifolds, back then, did not provide a smooth transition to the exhaust.

I suppose many considered the inlet side as the important one – where gases have to find their own way into the engine cylinders (maximum pressure difference of one atmosphere), while the exhaust gases were actively shoved out by the piston (as well as starting at rather higher pressure when the valve opened).
31 December 2019 at 11:11 #444013
Grindstone Cowboy
Participant
@grindstonecowboy
As long as the bit you are going into has a larger hole than the bit you are coming from (e.g. inlet port in head is larger than the hole in the mating face of the inlet manifold), the 'step' is pretty much irrelevant, and on the inlet side can help atomise any fuel droplets. Gasket can be matched to either. Hope I've explained that clearly.

Happy New Year,

Rob
31 December 2019 at 12:20 #444029
Phil P
Participant
@philp
I have just done a port matching exercise on a spare 1098 A series engine for my Morris Minor.

It was surprising just how bad they were when I took templates form each part.

I used a solid carbide burr in a die grinder on mine, and it was very effective and quick to do the job.

**LINK**

Phil
31 December 2019 at 12:30 #444032
martyn nutland
Participant
@martynnutland79495
Many thanks everyone.

Inlet.

Dremel

Especial thanks to Grindstone Cowboy. You seem to understand exactly what I want.

By the way Brian…I'm not into 'messing' with pre-War components. That is normally anethema to me. I'm just using conventional (pre-War if you like) engineering methods to try to improve an extremely poor aspiration system as thousands of Austin Seven Special builders have done since pre-War days!

Thanks again everyone. Bonne année from warm and sunny Paris.

Martyn
31 December 2019 at 13:33 #444036
Phil P
Participant
@philp
I would not try and polish the inlet tract, the fuel might not atomise properly, it needs some turbulence to stay suspended in the air flow.

I successfully opened out the inlet ports on my A7 RTC special engine, it had standard inlet valves but very narrow seats.

Phil

Edited By Phil P on 31/12/2019 13:47:42
31 December 2019 at 16:52 #444074
Stueeee
Participant
@stueeee
Opening out the inlet valve throats is well worth doing on an A7 motor. A simple pilot cutter can be made on a lathe very quickly; you can use a reground broken centre drill as the actual cutter. Also, there is no radius on the roof of inlet port where it meets the valve throat. It has been proved again and again that the bulk of the gas flow in an inlet port is in this area -the so-called "short side radius". As it left the factory this area is a sharp right angle rather than a radius. A bit of work here with a burr or mounted grinding point will have good results.

The improvement in the inlet ports can be seen in this photo.
31 December 2019 at 17:28 #444077
Phil P
Participant
@philp
Plus the removal of the sharp corner at the top of the cylinder bore near the valves which I forgot to mention.

Mine had unleaded exhaust seats fitted which precluded fitting larger inlet valves, but enlarging the throats is an excellent way of getting better gas flow.

Phil

Edited By Phil P on 31/12/2019 17:30:16
31 December 2019 at 20:33 #444091
vintage engineer
Participant
@vintageengineer
Try to not take too much material from the inlet ports as they way too big as standard to get optimum gas flow. If you are not competing in VSCC events, dividing the ports into four makes a big improvement.
31 December 2019 at 21:15 #444097
old mart
Participant
@oldmart
I used to do all my porting on motorcycles by hand with riffler files. Matching the profiles of bolted together components is best done with the help of thin card cutouts like gaskets, using the stud / bolt holes for alignment. One for each part, and when they are put together, it is easy to see the mismatches, and decide where the metal is to be removed.
31 December 2019 at 23:58 #444117
Phil P
Participant
@philp
You just reminded me that I took a photo of that process.

The red aerosols in the background are a crack detection kit, the A series heads are prone to cracking so I thought it best to check before doing a load of work on it.

Edited By Phil P on 31/12/2019 23:59:38
1 January 2020 at 07:28 #444126
martyn nutland
Participant
@martynnutland79495
Again, very many thanks for all the advice and practical guidance. This accords with everything I have read and studied on the subject of enlarging/profiling ports and I will be printing this off and keeping it close as I work. Congratulations to everyone who has already made such a splendid job of the procedure and, above all, thank you for sharing the expertise with me.

Bonne Année

Martyn
1 January 2020 at 10:44 #444139
vintage engineer
Participant
@vintageengineer
If you want to make your Minor go better. Try and get a 1295g head. These were fitted to Austin Princess 1100's. They have bigger valve and better ports. But you have to skim .125" of the head to get the comp ratio back up as these engines used flat topped pistons. I built a genuine 100 mph Minor Pick Up using all BMC parts except the exhaust manifold.

Posted by Phil P on 31/12/2019 12:20:34:

I have just done a port matching exercise on a spare 1098 A series engine for my Morris Minor.

It was surprising just how bad they were when I took templates form each part.

I used a solid carbide burr in a die grinder on mine, and it was very effective and quick to do the job.

**LINK**

Phil
1 January 2020 at 10:54 #444140
Phil P
Participant
@philp
Hi Vintage Engineer.

I think you might be referring to the 12G295 head, I used to run one of those on my Mini van when I was a lad in the 70's. If I used one now I would need a bigger carb and exhaust to take advantage of it as well.

To be honest I am not trying to make the Traveller go a lot faster, I am just taking the opportunity to build the engine to a better standard than they were when mass produced, I am static balancing all the moving parts and being careful with the cam timing, fitting duplex timing set up etc etc. I am after a smoother running reliable engine that I dont need to be spannering in years to come.

Phil
1 January 2020 at 11:31 #444145
Maurice Taylor
Participant
@mauricetaylor82093
Hi,

Just wondered if after tuning the mechanical parts of your classic engines ,you still use the distributer or you swap to an ECU.
1 January 2020 at 12:32 #444150
Phil P
Participant
@philp
I run an Accurite electronic ignition which is housed in the distributor but does away with the points and condenser.

It has been extremely reliable so far, but I do carry a spare distributor just in case. !!

It makes for a much smoother running engine with the added bonus of better fuel economy as well.

Some purists would not entertain the idea of electronics on a classic car though.

Why do you ask ?

Phil
1 January 2020 at 13:06 #444152
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
The time and effort spent in matching ports, manifold and joint will be well repaid on any engine.

A 1565cc Renault 16 given this treatment would match a 2 litre Vauxhall or Ford for acceleration or top speed!

Don't overdo the hot spotting, to maximise charge density. BUT if overdone, you could suffer icing, which will bring things to a halt, until it thaws out. DON't ask!

You need just enough heat input to match the latent heat of vapourisation of the petrol.

Heating from the coolant will provide the most easily adjusted and controlled method, if possible.

Sharp edges in the tracts, cause turbulence, and impede flow.

Someone once said "Getting the gas into, or out of an engine determines whether it is a pig or a horse"

So don't forget to ensure that the exhaust system does not cause too much back pressure, but remember that a little may be beneficial in preventing loss of charge on the overlap.

If you want improved performance, you can tune the exhaust system, but remember that what works at one speed could work against you at another!

Howard
1 January 2020 at 13:41 #444156
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
This thread is very changeable. First we start with exhaust manifold porting, the induction porting, then gas flowing heads, now electronic ignitions!

A question on electronic ignitions: I have encountered Accuspark electronic systems but not Accurite. Please can you provide a link? I’m not overly enthusiastic about the reported reliability of the accuspark versions. I have made made a better electronic system in the past – but it either lacked starting energy or real high end power (due to inverter limitations at the time).

Richard (Islip Minor on the morris minor forum) has a far better electronic system on his minor (which really goes like – -ink).
1 January 2020 at 14:05 #444164
Phil P
Participant
@philp
NDIY

You are correct, I was getting my Accu's muddled up with the DRO system I used to have. It is an Accuspark unit on the car.

I too have heard about some folks having reliability issues with them, but so far mine has been excellent, like I said I do carry a spare just in case.

Phil
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