Ups and downs in the workshop

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Ups and downs in the workshop

This topic has 38 replies, 25 voices, and was last updated 8 May 2018 at 22:12 by vintagengineer.

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10 September 2017 at 11:07 #316240
Rik Shaw
Participant
@rikshaw
My reconstructed spine restricts me to a max 5kg lift. Both chucks on the new lathe exceed that – in fact the 8” four jaw with back plate is far to heavy for me to lift safely at 15.5 kg.

An overhead hoist was out of the question as the timber ceiling/roof is not strong enough to support any sort of weight so I have constructed a hoist where the weight bears partly on the floor and partly against a bench with a small electric winch from ebay doing the lifting.

I used an old Victorian barn door hinge to help brace the scaffold pole against the direction of lift.

I pinched the braced jib idea from a commercially available design but as I already had suitable materials to hand I made my own.

On the first attempt I used a scaffold gate hinge clip as the main jib pivot but it did not work very well – everything was very wobbly even when the clip was supported from below with a second scaffold clip which is still there but now redundant.

So I replaced the gate hinge clip with a block I made from a lump of 70 x 50 MS secured to the scaffold pole with six 3/8” Whitworth UNBRAKO cap heads and that works very nicely.

Making the block offered a good chance to check out the lathes capabilities by boring the hole to suit the scaffold pole. This was done with the lathe in back gear set at the lowest speed and feed to prevent the lathe from jumping up and down with the off centre workpiece. After going through with a 20mm drill each roughing pass was done by applying a cut of 100” depth which opened the hole out by .200” each pass. It did not take long to get to size. I think it could have handled a deeper cut but I like to do machining by feel and in this case I felt comfortable. So the boring bit?………….

**LINK**

………..and up she goes!

Rik

**LINK**
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10 September 2017 at 11:07 #15958
Rik Shaw
Participant
@rikshaw
10 September 2017 at 12:12 #316254
Martin Cargill
Participant
@martincargill50290
Just watched your video -looks good. If you add a pulley block to the cable and anchor the hook back onto the hoist it will run at half speed when lifting and lowering – that will make it safer and lessen the snatch as it first lifts

.Martin
10 September 2017 at 12:35 #316258
Rik Shaw
Participant
@rikshaw
Thanks Martin for reminding me there was a pulley block in the factory carton – I'd quite forgotten it was there. Of course as you suggested with it now fitted the lift is far less snatchier – good thinking!

Rik
10 September 2017 at 12:53 #316263
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
I built my own hoist powered by the motor from a garage door opener, it runs on an overhead rail made of two bits of angle iron back to back and welded, and uses 4 ball raced as wheels. I have an 18V DC supply around the workshop, and the hoist uses this although it is actually a 36V motor. The load is taken on the RH chain fall. The drive from the motor to the chain sprocket is via a bit of bike chain with a 4:1 reduction.

Ian S C
10 September 2017 at 13:20 #316270
Rik Shaw
Participant
@rikshaw
Well done Ian – I expect it does just as good a job as mine.

Rik
10 September 2017 at 13:21 #316271
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Could have done with one of those yesterday to lift that new mill onto the bench, luckily if found my 87yr old dad hanging about so used him instead, we got it up no problem.
10 September 2017 at 13:29 #316273
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by JasonB on 10/09/2017 13:21:29:

Could have done with one of those yesterday to lift that new mill onto the bench, luckily if found my 87yr old dad hanging about so used him instead, we got it up no problem.

.

Dad dangling on one side of a pulley block and the mill on t'other … all nicely balanced for Jason to move with the lightest of touch.

MichaelG.
10 September 2017 at 14:07 #316280
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
Hi Rik,

Worthy of a write up for MEW?

Neil
10 September 2017 at 14:35 #316288
John MC
Participant
@johnmc39344
Some good ideas there, just thinking of something like that for my workshop, not getting any younger! Watched the video, the electric winch seems a bit abrupt, I am thinking of using a small hand powered trailer winch.

Also, if the chuck was lifted with a "U" shaped bracket, on its side. The chuck gripping one leg and a lifting eye arranged on the opposite leg on the vertical centre line, the chuck could then be lifted in the correct orientation for fitting to the spindle nose. This link shows what I have tried to describe;

https://moderntools.com.au/products/sky-hook-industrial-lifting-devices/

Scroll down the page and you will see what I mean.

John
10 September 2017 at 14:58 #316292
Rik Shaw
Participant
@rikshaw
If you think it would be of interest Neil I'd be glad to do a piece. PM me if you have the time and fill me in with submission details.

Rik
10 September 2017 at 15:29 #316298
larry Phelan
Participant
@larryphelan54019
Your lathe is very similar to mine,our conditions are also similar and we were both thinking along the same lines,but you beat me to it ! Those chucks are heavy,at least,at my age,they seem to be,so a hoist of any kind is a great help.I am still thinking along the lines of the elevating barrow built by Dave Fenner some time ago,since you could use this anywhere around the shop. You would need to be careful with the winch,which is intended for pulling,not for lifting.

Still, it,s food for thought.I found it difficult to find U section of the correct size,although I,m told it,s around.

A write up on this subject might be well received.
10 September 2017 at 17:15 #316319
clogs
Participant
@clogs
Hi Larry,

look at "Uni-Strut" they do a U channel section with a roller carriage ready made for this sort of thing…..ideal for sliding doors…..not sure if they do a deep U section but the type I have used is able to have a second section bolted ontop. ie an upside down U on top of the lower……doubling the strength…….u'll find it new in electrical wholesale store, I think in differing lengths……not mad dear…. very high quality with a good galv finish….

good luck Clogs
10 September 2017 at 17:23 #316320
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
Neat idea! Currently using a redundant TV swivelling bracket to bring the 4 jaw, (like Rik's) close enough to the mandrel for a quick heave across to the chuck board and then onto the Mandrel.

Have some inch and half Aluminium TV aerial mast, wonder if that would be strong enough to take the bending load?

Somewhere there is some inch x inch and half steel box section for the jib, I think.

Another project coming on, I think!

Thanks for the idea, Rik!

Howard
10 September 2017 at 17:42 #316324
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
When I bought my hoist/winch, the ebay seller was also offering a suitable "carrier"

It didn't suit my purpose, but seems to be a reasonable approach …

MichaelG.

.

This is the bigger model from the same seller: **LINK**

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electric-Winch-Cable-Control-Rope-Hoist-Engine-Winde-100-800-kg-/382177629785
10 September 2017 at 17:53 #316326
Clive Hartland
Participant
@clivehartland94829
Aluminium scaffold pole is best, easy to cut and machine and they always have bent ones if you ask nicely.

Clive
10 September 2017 at 17:59 #316327
Rik Shaw
Participant
@rikshaw
Howard – Your aluminium mast tube would almost certainly not be suitable. Even with my length of steel scaffold pole the top can be seen flexing as it takes the load of that four jaw. I think your ally tube would fold at the first lift.

Rik
10 September 2017 at 18:38 #316337
larry Phelan
Participant
@larryphelan54019
Thanks Clogs,

Will check that out at my electrical supplier. Need to get something sorted out with it,not getting any younger !

Yes I know Join the club !
10 September 2017 at 18:57 #316343
Tim Stevens
Participant
@timstevens64731
Can I suggest that when lifting a chuck as shown in the early picture – with a ring-bolt held in the jaws – you ensure that the thread of the ring-bolt goes through the jaws and you add a nut on that side?

More of a fiddle, but … anyone who is not strong enough to lift the chuck might also have difficulty tightening it enough. And if it is a heavy chuck it will do no good at all as it hurtles against you / lathe bed / spindle nose / toolpost.

I'm sure you all thought of this, but did you?

Cheers, Tim
10 September 2017 at 20:05 #316366
Chris Evans 6
Participant
@chrisevans6
Some good ideas here, my recently purchased 14" rotary table has not made it to the mill yet due to weight. I must make something soon.
10 September 2017 at 21:06 #316383
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
14" rotary table has not made it to the mill yet due to weight

A scissor type lift might be adequate for this application? An engine hoist might b

e another option, if you have sufficient man(o)euvering space.

Edited By not done it yet on 10/09/2017 21:08:50
10 September 2017 at 21:29 #316391
Cornish Jack
Participant
@cornishjack
Similar idea – hoist from Lidl, Jib from Ebay and the post (Steel tube) was also from Ebay, cut exactly to required length. Only used a couple of times but enabled me to get my Fobco Star from floor level onto its mobile bench, on my own – (81+ and knackered knee and back!) Very worth while.

rgds

Bill
10 September 2017 at 22:34 #316413
John Reese
Participant
@johnreese12848
Posted by not done it yet on 10/09/2017 21:06:18:

14" rotary table has not made it to the mill yet due to weight

A scissor type lift might be adequate for this application? An engine hoist might b

e another option, if you have sufficient man(o)euvering space.

Edited By not done it yet on 10/09/2017 21:08:50

I have a scissor lift able that has become an essential art of my shop. Mine is a Chinese import from Harbor Freight. I assume you have similar stores in the UK. The table is rated 1000 lb. Closed height is 9" and ,maximum height just matches the height of my pickup truck tailgate. It is great for getting heavy things on or off of the mill table. I made my work bench and tool stands with stretchers about 10" off the floor. If I need to move them I just roll the lift table underneath, jack it up, and roll to where I want it. It also fills in for a workbench when the benches are too cluttered to use. Unfortunately it is useless for getting chucks on or off the lathe.
10 September 2017 at 23:28 #316428
warwick wilton 1
Participant
@warwickwilton1
installing large chucks on lathes we used a bar in the chuck and a lift point that held the chuck to fit on the spindle

like a U-0 ? held in the same plane as the spindle nose.
11 September 2017 at 03:40 #316438
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
My origional hoist was a 5:1 block and tackle on the same over head rail, and that worked well enough. The chucks are 8", but seem to get hievier each year. This is the chuck in the lifting attitude. the box hanging to the left of the chain is the control box.

Ian S C

Edited By Ian S C on 11/09/2017 03:43:49
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