Holding milling cutters in a drill chuck

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Holding milling cutters in a drill chuck

Home Forums Workshop Techniques Holding milling cutters in a drill chuck

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 111 total)
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  • #259214
    Tim Stevens
    Participant
      @timstevens64731

      I have read in various places that a drill chuck is not a safe place for holding milling cutters. I can see why. But on page 506 of the current ME, illustration numbers 50, 51, 52 & 53, we see this described and shown.

      If it is OK for Mr Ian Couchman, and for the Editor, why is it not OK for us?

      Regards, Tim

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      #15879
      Tim Stevens
      Participant
        @timstevens64731

        Not a good idea – or is it?

        #259218
        JasonB
        Moderator
          @jasonb

          There is always a risk to the work or tool should it start to pull out but I would not think it is such a personal safety issue. All thoses hotos look to be using very small dia cutters so loadings will be quite low.

          #259221
          Neil Lickfold
          Participant
            @neillickfold44316

            If your chuck is a key type you probably can get away with i for small cutters. If it is the keyless type , no matter what size it is I would sat no.

            #259225
            Jon
            Participant
              @jon

              I am lazy at times more to do with times money aspect raising and lowering head, changing out for a collet etc saving time. Been doing exactly that for last 18 years where I can get away with it and you will be surprised how much grab a keyed cheap chinese chuck has and would go so far to say equal to the best ER collets.
              In past 18 years only ever had 3 cutters drop, mainly due to being blunt and working loose. ER have had 3 cutters work loose in 6 mins.

              Accurate stuff I use collets and perhaps 30% more cut depth and feed.

              #259227
              MW
              Participant
                @mw27036

                Not worth it, just wouldn't do it.

                And i'd try most things! 

                Michael W

                Edited By Michael Walters on 04/10/2016 20:03:14

                #259232
                Neil Wyatt
                Moderator
                  @neilwyatt

                  Because it's a 1/16" cutter so the side forces (which are the source of any problems) will be minimal?

                  Neil

                  #259236
                  Muzzer
                  Participant
                    @muzzer

                    You need minimal radial runout to ensure even loading of the teeth, particularly for small cutters. Drill chucks are not usually specified for runout, as it hardly matters. Has anyone measured runout on theirs?

                    Once the runout reaches the same magnitude as the cutting depth, pretty much all of the cutting is done by one tooth.

                    http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/jacobs-chuck-runout-expectations.47363/

                    Edited By Muzzer on 04/10/2016 20:33:33

                    #259237
                    JasonB
                    Moderator
                      @jasonb

                      Maybe a case of theory over practice, I seemed to manage quite happily in my early days with a drill chuck on the Unimat 3 milling attachment and also the odd cutter in a 3 jaw when I made my first models, these two for example don't look too shabby and I don't recall having cutters move.

                      Stuart Beam

                      1 Minnie

                      Still do it occasionally now as a drill chuck can get me into tighter spaces than my collet chucks can.

                      I would not say it is best practice but with care and knowing what could happen its OK for me.

                      Edited By JasonB on 04/10/2016 20:40:09

                      #259239
                      Tony Pratt 1
                      Participant
                        @tonypratt1
                        Posted by Michael Walters on 04/10/2016 19:58:35:

                        Not worth it, just wouldn't do it.

                        And i'd try most things!

                        Michael W

                        Edited By Michael Walters on 04/10/2016 20:03:14

                        Totally agree with Michael, it's very bad practice & will eventually end in tears. There's so much cheap & half decent milling collets around why use a drill chuck?

                        Tony

                        #259240
                        John Stevenson 1
                        Participant
                          @johnstevenson1
                          Posted by Jon on 04/10/2016 19:53:45:

                          and would go so far to say equal to the best ER collets.
                          In past 18 years only ever had 3 cutters drop, mainly due to being blunt and working loose. ER have had 3 cutters work loose in 6 mins.

                          Jon,

                          You are not Raymond's sock puppet are you ? wink

                          #259241
                          Michael Gilligan
                          Participant
                            @michaelgilligan61133

                            Not having seen the article, I can't comment 'in context' but, in principle, I agree with Muzzer … and would add that, with cutting being on one tooth, slots & grooves will be cut oversize.

                            In my opinion a 1/16" diameter cutter almost demands holding in a decent collet.

                            Tim's original point is well-made.

                            MichaelG.

                            #259243
                            Vic
                            Participant
                              @vic
                              Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 04/10/2016 20:45:34:

                              Posted by Michael Walters on 04/10/2016 19:58:35:

                              Not worth it, just wouldn't do it.

                              And i'd try most things!

                              Michael W

                              Edited By Michael Walters on 04/10/2016 20:03:14

                              Totally agree with Michael, it's very bad practice & will eventually end in tears. There's so much cheap & half decent milling collets around why use a drill chuck?

                              Tony

                              I agree, not worth the risk.

                              #259245
                              Jon
                              Participant
                                @jon

                                Just telling the way it is John nothing more.

                                #259247
                                Nick Hulme
                                Participant
                                  @nickhulme30114
                                  Posted by John Stevenson on 04/10/2016 20:46:40:

                                  Jon,

                                  You are not Raymond's sock puppet are you ? wink

                                  Ooh Matron!

                                  That sounds uncomfortable 😀

                                  #259249
                                  Steve Pavey
                                  Participant
                                    @stevepavey65865

                                    When you don't have a milling machine, but you do have a pillar drill, a lathe and a handful of milling cutters, sometimes you have to work around it. I have even used milling cutters in my floor standing morticer to mill a long slot in a piece of 4mm aluminium – everything survived intact, including me and the milling cutter. You just have to take things easy and, dare I say it, have a bit of a feel for it.

                                    #259250
                                    MW
                                    Participant
                                      @mw27036

                                      A bit unrelated, but very nice checkering on the stuart beam, how did you do that, if you mind me asking Jason?

                                      Ok, i can look rather sanctimonious when i say "just no", i get what people are saying when looking back at their early experiences, and quite honestly ask "well there must have been a time when you didn't know any better" Indeed there was, but i was very lucky to have a mentor in the form of a book written by Joe martin, which quickly steered me away from such lazy practice.

                                      I was quite sad, as i read the manual of my little sherline mill from cover to cover, and on the topic of milling cutters, these are small machines, so the milling cutters are small likewise, from the very beginning, Joe very sternly said that this was a totally wrong practice and would not pass muster…do not pass go, do not collect $200.

                                      So there we are, that's my story of how i came to know.

                                      Michael W

                                      #259269
                                      JasonB
                                      Moderator
                                        @jasonb

                                        Floor tiles part way down this page

                                        #259272
                                        Raymond Anderson
                                        Participant
                                          @raymondanderson34407

                                          JS, No no no, this one has absolutely zero to do with me. So I am keeping well clear of this one.smiley

                                          cheers.

                                          #259280
                                          JA
                                          Participant
                                            @ja

                                            I find holding a slot drill, up to 3/8" diameter, in a Jacobs chuck and using it as a drill (flat bottomed holes) does not present problems. As soon as you put a side force on the cutter (either end mill or slot cutter) when held in a Jacobs chuck or three jaw chuck the cutter is liable to work loose, from experience.

                                            I am still happy to mill in a lathe using a vertical slide with a cutter held in a three jaw chuck but I check that the cutter is held tight after every pass. When you think about it the cutter will rotate in the chuck as it becomes loose long before it does anything nasty.

                                            I think if you do it, take care.

                                            JA

                                            #259282
                                            JA
                                            Participant
                                              @ja

                                              Further comment – I would only use a Jacobs chuck for drilling operations.

                                              JA

                                              #259297
                                              Neil Wyatt
                                              Moderator
                                                @neilwyatt

                                                It would be interesting to know the author's view on this.

                                                N.

                                                #259300
                                                Ed Duffner
                                                Participant
                                                  @edduffner79357

                                                  I use endmills in a small tailstock chuck on the lathe for drilling and sometimes for plunge cuts on the mill. I wouldn't use a drill chuck for sideways milling especially at smaller sizes, because that usually means faster speeds and if the cutter decides to snap it's likely to be thrown sideways by one of the jaws at quite a velocity.

                                                  IMHO, it's not something to encourage beginners to machining (like myself) to do.

                                                  I wonder how many articles in ME and MEW show endmills being used in a 3-jaw lathe chuck along with a verticle slide? or is that considered ok?

                                                  Ed.

                                                  #259302
                                                  Ajohnw
                                                  Participant
                                                    @ajohnw51620
                                                    Posted by Michael Walters on 04/10/2016 19:58:35:

                                                    Not worth it, just wouldn't do it.

                                                    And i'd try most things!

                                                    Michael W

                                                    Edited By Michael Walters on 04/10/2016 20:03:14

                                                    I did try it with a cutter probably around 1/4" dia or maybe 3/8. Just worked loose.

                                                    No problem at all in a Peatol 3 jaw with machined soft jaws in it. 3/8 cutter 3/8 ms plate, slot in one go followed by a 1" x 1/8" woodruff cutter – and a number of other things. I've toyed with the idea of using a small grip true on my dore westbury and might yet if pushed by what I have around in ER. I have an ARC face mill arbour but am not keen on the design so if problems the 3 jaw might get fitted.

                                                    Think I saw ER coming loose ? Not an experience I have had.

                                                    John

                                                    #259316
                                                    JasonB
                                                    Moderator
                                                      @jasonb
                                                      Posted by Neil Wyatt on 05/10/2016 10:45:11:

                                                      It would be interesting to know the author's view on this.

                                                      N.

                                                      I've already contacted Ian

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