Cutting with a large tap

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Cutting with a large tap

Home Forums Workshop Techniques Cutting with a large tap

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  • #15832
    bricky
    Participant
      @bricky
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      #223873
      bricky
      Participant
        @bricky

        I have aquired a 40mm*1.5mm tap for forming the threads on accessories for my large bore Myford.Can I bore to size and tap without screwcutting or is that going to be to difficult.I have never used a tap this size before so I am seeking advice.

        Frank

        #223879
        Russell Eberhardt
        Participant
          @russelleberhardt48058

          I would screwcut first just under the required depth and follow up with the tap. Having said that I have screwcut 1.5 in 8 tpi female to fit the spindle nose of the Atlas with no problems and no need for a tap.

          Russell.

          #223880
          capnahab
          Participant
            @capnahab

            you will need a decent sized tap wrench..

            #223882
            Muzzer
            Participant
              @muzzer

              There are a few sites that quote tapping torques and it looks as if the requirement will be something in the range 50-100lbft in old money. That's a hefty torque, so although it may be possible to do it (by hand in a large vise with a very sturdy tap wrench), it's not going to be easy. Just holding it on axis while you heave it will be challenging. Certainly won't be able to do it in your Myford.

              The approved method might be to screwcut in the lathe close to finished dimensions and then run the tap through as a sort of chaser to finish off.

              #223887
              Ady1
              Participant
                @ady1

                you will need a decent sized tap wrench..

                About 6 feet long, a 3/4 inch thick bar, one man on each end and the job will be a doddle

                Definitely screwcut on the lathe first, accuracy is essential, then use the tap as a chaser

                #223926
                bricky
                Participant
                  @bricky

                  Thanks for your replies,I will screwcut and use it as a chaser as sugested.

                  Frank

                  #223928
                  Sam Longley 1
                  Participant
                    @samlongley1

                    I used to watch heating engineers, assembling school heating systems, putting threads on 1.5 & 2 inch steel pipe & they did not seem to have any trouble. The more senior in years among us may well remember the heating pipes running round changing rooms & classrooms with reducers at the old CI radiators. Not allowed now for fear of scalding kids

                    So how come a tap is harder to use than a die?

                    #223930
                    KWIL
                    Participant
                      @kwil

                      Better to bore, thread and then tidy with the tap. More likely to be all square and concentric!

                      #223935
                      frank brown
                      Participant
                        @frankbrown22225

                        I saw them at work too, up to 4 inches from memory, It is probable, the first cut was with the die open, seem to remember that they used two part "square" dies that slide up and down in the die stock.

                        Frank

                        #223937
                        Tony Pratt 1
                        Participant
                          @tonypratt1
                          Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 04/02/2016 17:03:21:

                          I used to watch heating engineers, assembling school heating systems, putting threads on 1.5 & 2 inch steel pipe & they did not seem to have any trouble. The more senior in years among us may well remember the heating pipes running round changing rooms & classrooms with reducers at the old CI radiators. Not allowed now for fear of scalding kids

                          So how come a tap is harder to use than a die?

                          How long was the 'die stock' arm?

                          Tony

                          #223939
                          Neil Lickfold
                          Participant
                            @neillickfold44316

                            That sized tap will be hard work in anything other than free machining. As been suggested, screw cut to size, but with a full form threading insert makes internal thread cutting that size quite a simple operation. It will take quite a bit to even run the tap through to clean up the thread to size. Buying a 1.5mm internal threading insert and holder will be worth while if you are making quite a few accessories. The advantage of screwcutting is that the thread will then be true to the faced reference and location diameter.

                            Neil

                            #223945
                            Sam Longley 1
                            Participant
                              @samlongley1
                              nPosted by Tony Pratt 1 on 04/02/2016 18:02:09:

                              Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 04/02/2016 17:03:21:

                              I used to watch heating engineers, assembling school heating systems, putting threads on 1.5 & 2 inch steel pipe & they did not seem to have any trouble. The more senior in years among us may well remember the heating pipes running round changing rooms & classrooms with reducers at the old CI radiators. Not allowed now for fear of scalding kids

                              So how come a tap is harder to use than a die?

                              How long was the 'die stock' arm?

                              Tony

                              Not as long as one might suspect. If you google " rigid pipe threaders" you will see that the head is not particularly big & handle is about 20 inches long.not very long when one has 20 threads a day to cut even in modern times. I have to admit when i last watched a chap he had a sort of electric drill with die at right angles to cl of normal drill drive

                              #223946
                              JasonB
                              Moderator
                                @jasonb

                                I get this out when the hit & miss engine models need a large pipe thread.

                                Holding the part is usually more of a problem as our plumbing friends don't think twice about using a pipe vice with its heavily grooved jaws which would chew up our sort of work.

                                Edited By JasonB on 04/02/2016 19:02:12

                                #223973
                                Neil Lickfold
                                Participant
                                  @neillickfold44316

                                  Taper pipe taps and dies are a lot easier to drive compared to a regular tap. Also most pipe is free cutting mild steel.

                                  Neil

                                  #223979
                                  Hopper
                                  Participant
                                    @hopper

                                    And having screwed 2" pipe by hand as an apprentice ISTR it can be darn hard work. Was the cause of much mirth among the very large middle-aged tradesmen as my 75kg frame struggled to get the darn dies started and then keep going.

                                    Thank goodness for Rigid pipe threading machines, like a mobile lathe that grips the pipe and has the dies mounted on a toolpost sort of arrangement and you just press the button and go. Had to wait a few years before I got to use one of them though.

                                    For your puposes, +1 on screwcut in the lathe and then use your tap for a very final clean up, just to remove tool marks etc. Be sure to bore your hole a little oversize before starting to screwcut, otherwise you make a lot of work for yourself getting that final fit. Most taps will not be made to give 100 per cent thread engagement. More like 90 per cent or less.

                                    #223994
                                    Gordon W
                                    Participant
                                      @gordonw

                                      Last time I had to cut a 4" pipe thread I had the boy at one end holding the pipe-vice down while dripping oil on the thread. Me with the technical stuff and a 4 foot pipe handle extension. Not very difficult except for being in a hole.

                                      #223996
                                      Speedy Builder5
                                      Participant
                                        @speedybuilder5

                                        Don't forget, the bore size can be a little larger than theoretical as you probably only need 70% or so engagement on the thread – Others will correct me on the percentage engagement required.
                                        BobH

                                        #223997
                                        Ian S C
                                        Participant
                                          @iansc

                                          Iron water pipe is by no means free cutting, it's quite ductile, and tears quite easily, leaving a ragged threaI,v never measured my die stocks, but they would have about 2ft arms, one takes 2 piece dies up to 1", the other takes pipe dies to 1 1/2" (I think), If you want a bit less swinging of arms, use a ratchet type.

                                          I bored and threaded a back plate for my lathe with no thought of using a tap, it had to be square to the face, and for a 2 1/4" x 8TPI thread there was no other way.

                                          Ian S C

                                           

                                          Edited By Ian S C on 05/02/2016 10:04:49

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