Screwcutting Clutch for Myford Lathes

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Screwcutting Clutch for Myford Lathes

Home Forums Workshop Techniques Screwcutting Clutch for Myford Lathes

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  • #180786
    Neil Wyatt
    Moderator
      @neilwyatt

      A great deal of interest has been shown on these forums into various screwcutting clutches for different lathes.

      I was recently contacted by Alastair Sinclair who drew my attention to an article by Martin Cleeve which described how he had constructed one for his Myford.

      To accompany Alastair's letter the article is reproduced HERE.

      Interestingly, although the recent designs have been derived from the Hardinge arrangement, according to Martin Cleeve it appears it may have originated with the British Exe lathe.

      Neil

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      #15762
      Neil Wyatt
      Moderator
        @neilwyatt

        Martin Cleeve article

        #180787
        Neil Wyatt
        Moderator
          @neilwyatt

          Unfortunately this device was never written up in full. If anyone can scan and post better quality versions of pictures in the Martin Cleeve article, I'd be grateful.

          Better still, does anyone know the present location of his lathe?

          Finally Martin Cleeve's book 'Screwcutting in the Lathe' is available HERE

          Neil

          #180788
          Michael Gilligan
          Participant
            @michaelgilligan61133
            Posted by Neil Wyatt on 22/02/2015 14:54:06:

            If anyone can scan and post better quality versions of pictures in the Martin Cleeve article, I'd be grateful.

            .

            Neil,

            I have a clean copy of the magazine … I will scan the photos and post them here

            [hopefully, later today]

            MichaelG.

            #180793
            Michael Gilligan
            Participant
              @michaelgilligan61133

              As promised:

              cleeve_dog_fig2.jpg

              cleeve_dog_fig3.jpg

              cleeve_dog_fig4.jpg

              cleeve_dog_fig5.jpg

              MichaelG.

              #180804
              John Stevenson 1
              Participant
                @johnstevenson1

                There isn't a lot new in this engineering world except materials and electronics or a combination of both.

                The Hardinge system has been widely copied and used by other makers. Monarch and CVA had a very similar arrangement but did not publicised it preferring to call it the forward and reverse gear clutch but being inside the headstock and a single dog clutch it worked exactly the same way.

                Where the Hardinge and the Monarch systems were concerned as regards many later inferior copies is that they were inside the headstock, hardened and ground and lubricated making them a real work horse.

                #180814
                Nobby
                Participant
                  @nobby

                  Here is the dog clutch I had on my Exe lathe I fitted one on my Drummond flat bed as well useing a pin type location
                  Nobby

                  sam_2064.jpg

                  Edited By Nobby on 22/02/2015 18:16:42

                  Edited By Nobby on 22/02/2015 18:22:02

                  Edited By Nobby on 22/02/2015 18:23:10

                  #180838
                  John Stevenson 1
                  Participant
                    @johnstevenson1

                    Does anyone know what the arrangement is / was on the back driven by the round belt from the spindle?

                    Second pic in Michaels post.

                    Also seen it asked here and also been asked before but what happened to this lathe ? Does any one know for sure ?

                    #180840
                    Michael Gilligan
                    Participant
                      @michaelgilligan61133
                      Posted by John Stevenson on 22/02/2015 22:34:29:

                      Does anyone know what the arrangement is / was on the back driven by the round belt from the spindle?

                      Second pic in Michaels post.

                      .

                      John,

                      Vague recollection of it being a Fine Feed arrangement … But not certain.

                      MichaelG.

                      .

                      Ahh … Suppressed memories

                      Have a look on this EW thread.

                      Now, does anyone have ME for 10-November-1955 question

                       

                      Edited By Michael Gilligan on 22/02/2015 23:05:20

                      Edited By Michael Gilligan on 22/02/2015 23:07:39

                      #180952
                      Michael Gilligan
                      Participant
                        @michaelgilligan61133
                        Posted by Michael Gilligan on 22/02/2015 22:45:57:

                        … does anyone have ME for 10-November-1955 question

                        .

                        Any offers ?

                        MichaelG.

                        #181088
                        Neil Wyatt
                        Moderator
                          @neilwyatt

                          You have an email, Michael.

                          Neil

                          Edit – not the most elegant solution…

                          Edited By Neil Wyatt on 25/02/2015 08:29:51

                          #181089
                          Michael Gilligan
                          Participant
                            @michaelgilligan61133

                            Thanks, Neil … Much appreciated.

                            Agreed it's far from elegant … but I suspect that there's the germ of a good idea in there.

                            Replace the outboard gearbox with a bit of electrickery and a stepper motor ?

                            MichaelG.

                            #181091
                            Ady1
                            Participant
                              @ady1

                              cleeves1.jpg

                              cleeves2.jpg

                               

                              cleeves3.jpg

                              cleeves4.jpg

                              Edited By Ady1 on 25/02/2015 08:56:08

                              #181092
                              Les Jones 1
                              Participant
                                @lesjones1

                                Hi Michael,
                                Is this the sort of "electrickery" you had in mind ?

                                Les.

                                #181100
                                Brian Wood
                                Participant
                                  @brianwood45127

                                  John and Michael,

                                  To answer your question, in Cleeve's book WPS 3 'Screwcutting in the lathe' he describes the rear mounted drive using the round belt off the spindle as a permanently available self act gearing running at approximately 1/10 spindle speed.

                                  It is brought into engagement with any gear train assembled by lowering the quadrant onto the small pinion extreme bottom left in the last picture that Michael presented

                                  Regards

                                  Brian.

                                  #181101
                                  Michael Gilligan
                                  Participant
                                    @michaelgilligan61133
                                    Posted by Les Jones 1 on 25/02/2015 08:51:35:

                                    Hi Michael,
                                    Is this the sort of "electrickery" you had in mind ?

                                    Les.

                                    .

                                    Yes indeed, Les

                                    What particularly struck me, though, was the way Cleeve's gearbox is brought into mesh with an existing screw-cutting train; like an overdrive unit.

                                    MichaelG.

                                    .

                                    Edit: Thanks to Ady and Brian

                                    Edited By Michael Gilligan on 25/02/2015 09:34:38

                                    #181105
                                    John Stevenson 1
                                    Participant
                                      @johnstevenson1

                                      When you look at the pictures at the top of this page on Cleeves original ML7 it's a very complex machine, made so to serve various functions to allow him to work smarter at the time.

                                       

                                      However as we have moved on there is probably nothing that machine can do that cannot be performed by a couple of stepper motors and a simple controller.

                                       

                                      I feel that we are lucky being where we are in time in that we are seeing great strides being taken, probably more so than the last 100 years when machine tools hardly changed.

                                       

                                      It is more than possible now as many readers here are in the same boat, that you can have a CNC lathe, mill, laser cutter and 3D printer, all in a little shed. In Martin Cleeves day you would have been burnt on a fire of Drummond round bed packing cases as a heretic.

                                       

                                      What is helping most though is the power of the internet where people can share ideas, drawings instantaneously without waiting for the next edition of postbag and the fact it can be a 10 sided conversation.

                                      Edited By John Stevenson on 25/02/2015 09:50:26

                                      #181108
                                      Michael Gilligan
                                      Participant
                                        @michaelgilligan61133

                                        Well said, John

                                        MichaelG.

                                        #181112
                                        Brian Wood
                                        Participant
                                          @brianwood45127

                                          I really couldn't agree more, it was all so ponderous years ago.

                                          It is though both interesting and instructive to understand the purely mechanical approach of those times, it gives insights into the more flexible approach available today, and being a pure 'clanky' one I have much greater empathy with.

                                          Brian

                                          #181120
                                          Cornish Jack
                                          Participant
                                            @cornishjack

                                            "Also seen it asked here and also been asked before but what happened to this lathe ?"

                                            IIRC (always questionable!!), I seem to remember that the lathe and accessories were either sold through ME or the auction was covered in the mag. This was fairly adjacent to (months) Mr Cleeves's passing.

                                            Rgds

                                            Bill

                                            #181122
                                            Circlip
                                            Participant
                                              @circlip

                                              Might have been ponderous but at least the keyboard "Warrior" syndrome didn't occur.

                                              Regards Ian

                                              #181125
                                              John Stevenson 1
                                              Participant
                                                @johnstevenson1
                                                Posted by Cornish Jack on 25/02/2015 11:14:18:

                                                "Also seen it asked here and also been asked before but what happened to this lathe ?"

                                                IIRC (always questionable!!), I seem to remember that the lathe and accessories were either sold through ME or the auction was covered in the mag. This was fairly adjacent to (months) Mr Cleeves's passing.

                                                Rgds

                                                Bill

                                                Thanks Bill, perhaps someone can come up with the article ?

                                                Chances are though that the new owner would have ripped everything off as it wasn't genuine Myford, filled all the holes in and painted it back to colour me standard.

                                                All the while muttering about bodgers and heretics and why could he not have left it standard as Myford's MUST have known what they were doing [ if so it was a first ]

                                                #181128
                                                Chris Trice
                                                Participant
                                                  @christrice43267

                                                  I know it's an attempt at humour but you're having a wholly unnecessary pop at Myford owners again. Not everyone who owns one is like that and I have two. And the reality is that who ever bought Martin's lathe knew exactly what they were buying. Substitute the word Bridgeport in your post and imagine I'd written it to see what it feels like. This is the sort of snobbery that drives people away and given the number of Myford users here, does nothing to endear the magazine to them. Sorry, but it needed saying.

                                                  #181130
                                                  John Stevenson 1
                                                  Participant
                                                    @johnstevenson1

                                                    Chris, Had two Myfords, both bought brand new so the money went to Myfords as opposed to a previous owner.

                                                    Still got one of a sorts, all in bits but given these bits.

                                                    Have owned four genuine Bridgeports, one from new [ biggest piece of $hit I have ever owned except for a British made Camarc welder ] and one CNC.

                                                    Now own a clone, Warco WM40, again bought new.

                                                    So none of this is sour grapes but even though you may not be like this there are more with a foot in the other camp.

                                                    My ML7 when sold on was reasonably highly modified.

                                                    Pressure oiling on spindle and counter shaft, long travel top slide, full bed travel taper turning, lever feed tailstock and also a powered tailstock for small hole drilling.

                                                    All this was ripped off and sold by the new owned and repainted in Myford grey even though the paintwork was decent.

                                                    #181354
                                                    Phil Whitley
                                                    Participant
                                                      @philwhitley94135
                                                      Posted by Neil Wyatt on 22/02/2015 14:54:06:

                                                      Better still, does anyone know the present location of his lathe?

                                                      Neil

                                                      My thoughts exactly when I was reading the book. Neil, in that Martin modified his lathe to produce batches of threads commercially amd could knock them out at a fair rate. Electronic leadscrews, stepper motors and the like are ok…….till they go wrong! You know where you are with gears and clutches.

                                                      Phil

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