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That’s better!

This topic has 49 replies, 23 voices, and was last updated 23 May 2011 at 19:02 by Steve Garnett.

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20 May 2011 at 22:07 #68934
Alan Worland 1
Participant
@alanworland1
Well I dont know about everybody else, but I have two benches which measure 7 ft long by 2 ft 6 in deep which are a pleasure to work on – except I usually end up working in a bit about a foot square if I am lucky!

I find this really annoying, it’s my own fault I dont put tools/things away because I will use it again shortly – the result is a bench which resembles – well it doesn’t resemble anything because you cant see it.

So tonight instead of getting on with my double eccentrics for the steam engine I cleared it all away, tools, swarf, clamps, fixings and filings the lot – fantastic, wonder how long it will last?!
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20 May 2011 at 22:07 #15524
Alan Worland 1
Participant
@alanworland1
20 May 2011 at 22:13 #68935
John Stevenson 1
Participant
@johnstevenson1
I have the same problem with the floor.

So, the other week in a fit of inspiration I ordered a big roll of rubber flooring, far bigger than I have at present, the idea being the floor space to put it should be wrapped up with the matting.

If not why do they sell it by the square metre ?

John S.
20 May 2011 at 22:45 #68937
Alan Worland 1
Participant
@alanworland1
Mmmmm! It’s only the work bench that’s been sorted! I suppose I should carry on the house work and clear the floor as well. Matting sounds good, but dont the cavities hold a lot of swarf etc? I would love to paint the floor but it will never happen!
20 May 2011 at 23:18 #68941
Clive Hartland
Participant
@clivehartland94829
Yes, the spaces in the matting love swarf and its a pig to get it out! I made smaller pieces so that I could lift it and clean underneath better.

It is quite heavy and solid so it does not shift about.

I agree with Alans plight and I am the same as I have several different projects on the go all the time.

I also have another problem in my workshop as I have a sawbench and the dust gets all over so my industrial cleaner works overtime.

We have a chest type freezer in there too and the top also doubles up as a work area sometimes.

I also store quality wood ( Mahogany and the like) to keep it dry so that gets in the way as well.

Then, when I have made bee boxes I have to store them in the workshop until I can transport them away.

Its a tip but its all my tip! but I know where everything is.

Clive
20 May 2011 at 23:25 #68943
Steve Garnett
Participant
@stevegarnett62550
A tidy bench, desk or floor is the sign of a sick mind. I set quite a bit of store by that!

But although over the last couple of days I’ve seen two examples of a far worse problem than I’ve got, I still keep trying to do something about it. My problem with benches and tools in particular isn’t to do with needing them again shortly, but rather more to do with concentrating on whatever it is I’m doing, and unless it materially gets in the way, the clearing up can wait. And wait. And wait…
20 May 2011 at 23:37 #68945
Alan Worland 1
Participant
@alanworland1
I know I need to have a clear up when I pull a drawer open and put a sheet of something on it to work on!

When it’s done. I think to myself, I am going to keep this like this – never happened so far!
20 May 2011 at 23:46 #68947
Chris Trice
Participant
@christrice43267
The trigger for a clear up with me is when you put something on the bench and within seconds you can’t find it again amongst all the clutter. I think the term is bench blindness.
21 May 2011 at 00:03 #68949
Nicholas Farr
Participant
@nicholasfarr14254
Hi, any flat surface is fatal, because I’ll just pop that on there for now and then that bit and then … oh! that’ll just fit there till I want it. Next thing you know in a few days is I’m hunting for a particular tool or a lump of metal and get frustrated looking for it.

Anyway I think if you see a bench thats always tidy, you tend to think maybe not a lot of work happens on it, because to much time is spent clearing up. I do put tools away sometimes, but then it seems to be worse, as I can’t always think where they are, it’s esayer to remember when you last used them.

Regards Nick.
21 May 2011 at 00:13 #68950
Ernie Noa
Participant
@ernienoa33736
I like to clean up when I have friend over, but as soon as they are gone, the projects are out all over the place. I have three work benches. One for heavy dirty work, a clean white laminated surface for fine assembly work. And a wood working bench in the garage. My machine tools are in the heated and air-condition area. At any one time it is a trick to navigate as there is much on the floor and on the benches. I do clean off the machine tools between operations on a project. There can be no creativity without clutter.
21 May 2011 at 12:59 #68969
Ramon Wilson
Participant
@ramonwilson3
Been following this post with a wry smile. Apparently I have a sick mind as I do like to keep my workshop clean – within reason – but I like to think that that fact does not get in the way of making anything.

However, as Chris has said I do suffer from ‘Bench Blindness’. What a good term, not heard it before but it is a perfect description.

Beginning with the previous ‘clean up’ the next parts machined will gradually accrue tools etc over the bench until such times I just have to stop and ‘clear the area’

I constantly put things down – within reach – that simply cannot be found once required again. Mainly these are lathe chuck keys, two 5mm long series allen keys and the socket wrench for the Dickson toolpost. These always disappear when they are seemingly needed most and are always found nearby – eventually!

I solved the problem on the mill – the drill chuck key is tied to it with a length of chord but the rest ???

Worst case was turning a small part then in a flash it was nowhere to be found. Hunted everywhere – even had the wife in to help but no, it was very definitely gone. Finally accepted I would just be quicker to make another. Did so then moved over to the vice to put a small hacksaw cut into it only to be met with previous part sitting in vise ready to be cut. Aaagh

I’m glad I’m not alone guy’s. Now, perhaps it’s time for a clean up

Regards – Ramon
21 May 2011 at 13:27 #68971
Steve Garnett
Participant
@stevegarnett62550
Posted by Ramon Wilson on 21/05/2011 12:59:42:

I’m glad I’m not alone guy’s. Now, perhaps it’s time for a clean up

Not necessarily…. I have the problem you’ve described too. The one thing I’ve found that makes it worse though, is clearing up. I stand a much better chance of finding something in the place that I put it than I do if I put it somewhere and subsequently moved it during a clearing operation. I think that this is probably because then, I’ve moved it twice – so at a bare minimum I have twice as much to remember. I’ve probably put something down in a logical place without thinking twice about it, but if I clear up, the chances are that it isn’t in one any more, so I’m stuffed – at least temporarily.

One of the statements that irritates me most about this is the one that goes ‘A place for everything, and everything in it’s place’. For the life of me, I can’t do that. For a start, there are far too many ‘things’, and secondly, how much time and space is it going to take to organise it properly? Time when I could have been doing something constructive – or even destructive!

But hey, different peoples’ brains work in different ways. I get the impression that most people who have the untidiness gene are also what might be described as ‘generative thinkers’ – rather than working it all out in advance, they tend to go with the flow rather more – which implies rather more concentration on the task in hand, I think. You do experiments, you try different approaches to what you are making/doing, etc, but the last thing you are thinking about is the ‘messy’ fallout. I suppose that the ultimate opposite of this approach is that you’ve planned everything so meticulously in advance that you’ve even planned the replacing of tools, etc into your building process!

If you like, these are two extremes of a continuum. You just have to work out where you are along it, and try to find your own way to cope with this – if you can…
21 May 2011 at 13:32 #68972
NJH
Participant
@njh
Ramon

Thank goodness for your post! I recognise the situation entirely – I was worried that it was age related mental deterioration – so you have made me feel much happier!

The situation is even worse when carrying out D.I.Y jobs indoors. I take all the tools I need from the workshop then make endless trips back and forth looking for the things I’ve misplaced or forgotten! ( Then, when in the workshop , the things left indoors!)

Yes I too like a tidy workshop and have a good blitz at times then sit back and think how good it looks – it doesn’t last long!

One thing I did a while ago was buy several sets of the small wall mounted drawers and sorted all my nuts, bolts etc into them. ( People often remark on this but I point out – take the time do it once and thereafter find the bolt instantly or else spend 10 min. rummaging around in the big box every time!) The same principle has also been extended to all my taps & dies and other small kit when a drawer can be removed and taken to the bench or lathe. This really does save time and combats frustration!

Regards

Norman

Edited By NJH on 21/05/2011 13:34:22
21 May 2011 at 14:05 #68973
Stovepipe
Participant
@stovepipe
I’m one of these smug oiks who puts tools away in their proper places when finished. Still doesn’t help in finding that tool you put down just now does it – wheresitgone ? Like Norman, a set of drawers in the workshop does help in classifying all those small components. I bought a roll of Blick labels (1200 of ’em) several years ago, and label each drawer with its (assumed) contents. With four sets of those drawers, going cross-eyed trying to locate those centre drills I know I’ve put in a drawer somewhere doesn’t improve my temper. SWMBO stays away from the workshop when I’m in there, because my language apparenlty anneals the metals without any external assistance !

Dennis
21 May 2011 at 14:08 #68974
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
Glad I’m not on my own in having a some what untidy workshop. Last time I tidied up it took ages to find things (I did find some things I did’nt know I’d lost).

It always make me wou when I see a photo of some ones work mounted in the lathe with no swafe, every thing nice and shiny. Perhaps they have two workshops, one for work and one for photos. Ian S C
21 May 2011 at 14:14 #68975
KWIL
Participant
@kwil
No Ian, we are forced to clear up enough so that it is not seen the the photo!!
21 May 2011 at 15:22 #68976
Gordon W
Participant
@gordonw
Well I’ve never been much for tidying up, how do you know the drill bit you’ve just used won’t be the one you need next? Might just as well leave it in the chuck. I do have some magnets from old hard drives screwwed to the wall, these take chuck keys etc. and if I can’t see the key no switch on. Could not figure out why my bench was such a mess until I caught the cats investigating it. Now just leave it alone and the cats get bored.
21 May 2011 at 15:49 #68978
Ramon Wilson
Participant
@ramonwilson3
Hi again,

I think this is one of those subjects for discussion that could run and run with good views from either side of the fence.

I’m convinced my desire for a tidy workshop emanated from two sources. First a conversation between my mother and a neighbour who had visited my uncles allotment. “You could eat your dinner off the shed floor everything is so clean”. I was thirteen at the time and I still remember it clearly so I guess it made an impression. He was a good woodworker and made what to me at the time were superb model fishing boats all carved from solid so I guess it was wanting to be like him that sowed the seed. Unfortunately my adulation was brought to an abrupt halt just a year or so later when he died from Leukaemia. I inherited his woodworking tools which I still have and often use. The second of course was the army training and the need to look after your kit particularly your rifle so I guess it’s instilled and comes second nature.

That said It does not take a clean workshop to produce ‘clean’ model making. I have been priviledged over the years to visit ‘one or two’ some of which I most definitely could not live with but the models that were produced from them belied all indication of such a mess.

Recently I visited someone new to the area. His reputation for small diesels and two fine locos both medal winners at the ME exh well before him. I was somewhat surprised to find then a well used Myford and a very old and incredibly dirt bound mill separated by what could only be considered as a a conglomeration of bits and pieces strewn everywhere. Only last week on a return visit he sat in my workshop and said – and I quote – “I feel overwhelmed, everything is so clean”

Now that is not to try to impress – just to show there are both sides – I certainly don’t try to maintain a clean workshop it just happens. I was just as overwhelmed by his quality of engineering and his output over the years which was quite humbling to say the least.

We’re all different save possibly for one thing – clean or grubby, swarf strewn or not it’s just being in there that matters and that’s where I’m off too, making swarf and hopefully some Eta con-rods will materialise..

Regards for now – Ramon
21 May 2011 at 16:09 #68980
Clive Hartland
Participant
@clivehartland94829
The story about losing a piece you are working on is very familiar, I was making a sleeve to fit a spindle and made the item and then looked for the spindle, everywhere!

I gave up and decided make a new spindle and then as I went to chuck a piece of metal there it was sitting along side the tool holder on the lather, slightly hidden by the overhang.

Clive. PS. Ive just lost my tacker gun, got the staples alright but wheres the gun?

Clive
21 May 2011 at 16:28 #68982
geoff
Participant
@geoff
my work bench is 10 foot long x 2 foot wide and always cluttered i can never understand how these guys keep their bench tidy i have a friend who when i went to visit i was always envious of how tidy his workshop was a place for everything and everything in its place all labelled up etc when he came to visit me i had the impression he was not impressed so there after i put a sign which read there is nothing like a tidy workshop and this is nothing like a tidy workshop

now where did i put that motor

geoff

Edited By geoff on 21/05/2011 16:30:49
21 May 2011 at 18:03 #68986
Steve Garnett
Participant
@stevegarnett62550
Posted by NJH on 21/05/2011 13:32:43:

The situation is even worse when carrying out D.I.Y jobs indoors. I take all the tools I need from the workshop then make endless trips back and forth looking for the things I’ve misplaced or forgotten! ( Then, when in the workshop , the things left indoors!)

Oh Norman, I feel your pain.

One thing I did a while ago was buy several sets of the small wall mounted drawers and sorted all my nuts, bolts etc into them. ( People often remark on this but I point out – take the time do it once and thereafter find the bolt instantly or else spend 10 min. rummaging around in the big box every time!) The same principle has also been extended to all my taps & dies and other small kit when a drawer can be removed and taken to the bench or lathe. This really does save time and combats frustration!

I’ve had, sitting on the floor in the outside workshop, seven sets of these drawers – they’ve been there for ages, getting in the way (don’t ask – it’s a long, long story). And this thread has made me feel sufficiently guilty about the whole thing that I’ve spent a few hours today trying to get them on the wall in the place I intended for them. In a nasty dose of reality, I’ve come to the conclusion that I’ll never find out if everything will actually fit in this damned workshop unless I get it clear – well at least once…
21 May 2011 at 20:21 #68992
NJH
Participant
@njh
Hi Steve

Well done!!!

Just to encourage you here is a pic of mine!

You will need to label them and have some sort of plan where each item is!

For example Taps/ Dies red/ white label – Nuts Bolts etc. yellow/ black label

Just think you can really get into this and make it a hobby in itself!!

Good luck

Norman

Edited By NJH on 21/05/2011 20:23:08
21 May 2011 at 20:54 #68993
John Stevenson 1
Participant
@johnstevenson1
Seriously I try to do one small job a day that’s related to the workshop.

Even if it’s only tidying a drawer full of tools or bits, every week I try to pull a larger job in if possible depending on customers.

This weeks ‘larger’ job was to suspend two shelves from the rafters to hold the build up of drawings and papers to stop them getting messed up on the back of the bench. Silly little 20 minute job but it will pay back in spades.

John S.
22 May 2011 at 00:02 #69003
Nobby
Participant
@nobby
Hi All & Steve

All my draws are numberd L1 (lathe) M1 etc . & i try to keep them tidy .Heres the crunch

I have a little red book marked A to Z tool location . ie knurling tool . look K L2 the problem is where to keep the book? the draws are in old chests of draws I painted to match the colour of my S7 Mk 1

Regards Nobby
22 May 2011 at 01:05 #69004
Steve Garnett
Participant
@stevegarnett62550
Posted by NJH on 21/05/2011 20:21:40:

Just to encourage you here is a pic of mine!

Now that’s just plain depressing. For a start, mine are going in a horrible old wooden shed, and they are rather old and bent about a bit (this is all a part of the story of them). I have now managed to screw up all seven of them in a line, but have a bit more to do to get them all straightened out and not wobbling at the bottom. That will be tomorrow if I don’t shoot myself first…

Colour coding is clearly ‘a very admirable thing’… so I probably won’t be doing that. I can still read labels, and I find that for me, weird colours don’t particularly help. There are other clues to do with the drawers that distinguish them anyway, so it’s not really an issue. As for keeping a reference book of what’s where…. AAAAAAAAAGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! What’s the point of having a memory? Aren’t we supposed to be spatially aware?

I really can’t be doing with too much organisation, I’m afraid. I can see the virtues of it, and all that – but somehow it leaves me cold. I just like things to look ‘lived in’, I suppose. I can keep things relatively clean and tidy if I have to – but I really don’t want it to get in the way of actually having some fun – if you see what I mean.

And I freely admit that I’d make a lousy storeman!

Edited By Steve Garnett on 22/05/2011 01:07:34
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