There are so many things to consider when looking for a mill. Physical size, will it fit into the space available and still have room to work. Table size, will you be able to fit the projects you have in mind onto it with room to secure the project in place. Power, how fast and deep and wide of cuts will you be making. The motor needs to be able to handle that with some to spare. The weight of the machine, how will you get it into the space you plan to have it. Will it be rigid enough to do the job you intend. How will you control it being a CNC mill? Do you have power outlet for that part too? How about the space that control will need? How fat is your wallet? Can you afford new or will used have to do?

hi Barrie,

I have a question then if you don't mind. I read your Wabeco CC-F1210 review. I just came across a local ad for an old CC-F1210 for something like $1900, plus or minus (it's part of a larger lot of workshop tools). I think that's a decent price but I have no idea really. What do you think? I don't think it comes with tooling but it appears there are a bunch of collets (see pic below). It runs with some archaic (?) software called Windreh from "Mombasi", and in the stand is a cooling system of some kind. It looks like the spindle is manually controlled? But I could stick a VFD on it and connect to the computer?

I have a very small shop in my basement where I do prototyping. I have a lot of hand tools and a few power tools but in terms of real metalworking machines only a drill press and mini-lathe. I want to build my own CNC but thought in the meantime I could both use and learn about milling if I bought a small CNC mill. If the price is good I can resell with very little loss so it's basically like a free course in milling, plus I can make parts for my diy CNC.

What do you think?

regards,

Randy

hi Barrie,

Thanks for the quick reply. It makes me lean more towards getting it. I probably would take the risk without further consideration but it's 160+ mile drive, which a friend agreed to help with but still… and it's actually a whole workshop package that's the thing on offer; the mill, a lathe, grinder, drill press, a big vise. I'm not even sure my friend's van can carry all the weight which I guess is 300-400kg. It has to all fit it into my apartment too. I don't need the other items and would try to resell them, which is a bit of hassle but could offset the mill price some.

That's interesting about the high speed spindle. That's something I'm a little confused on since many d.i.y. machines use (expensive, ~$2000) spindles that go up to 18krpm or so. The Wabeco apparently only goes to 7000-7500 rpm. I know some metals need the lower speeds but is missing out on the high rpm's a problem?

>you will be able to pick up the inputs for the VFD from there.

So you're saying it's probably just a matter of connecting the appropriately-sized VFD to the motor wires? I've done that for 3 phase motors and it's literally just connecting the 3 phases and ground and setting some VFD parameters, easy, but I'm wondering if there are any hidden gotchas when trying to do that to this old machine.

I could make an enclosure in case coolant splatter were a problem.

This looks like a very similar model but the newest version:

**LINK** (without motors)

**LINK**

**LINK**

I see that the controller up top has two knobs (and probably other differences) and more importantly, the tool holder looks larger although it's specified as MT2. I guess maybe this old mill is also MT2 since in the picture there's a drill head thing lying on the table and it looks like the MT2 pictured in **LINK**. Not sure.

Do you think it's easy to use Mach3 instead of the old software it comes with? I guess in the worst case I would need to just buy some new breakout board to connect to the motor drivers (assuming they have step/dir inputs)?

As far as inspecting the machine, I don't have a lot of experience in that besides what I've read or seen in videos. I guess these would be important points:

– condition of ways, particularly near the ends of travel

– sound when moving, by hand and by motor

– any gritty feeling when moving axes by turning hand cranks, or parts of travel that feel tight (not sure how bad either of these actually are)

– signs of crashes…but not sure what that would be

– turn knobs, flip switches, rotate handles and look for anything that doesn't feel right

– turn on spindle and run it from lowest to highest rpm's. I have a small tachometer so I suppose I can measure those rpm's although I don't know if that brings anything.

– check jogging by computer if possible

– raise/lower quill and see if it's smooth

– push on all the axes and see if they're all solid (I guess they would be though)

– run each axis motor somehow

– coolant system…no idea

– check if toolholder sticks into spindle part

– peel back bellows and look at rails

– check cables for frayed spots (but not a big deal since I can replace)

– backlash checks? no idea how to do that or what is normal

– looks like z axis should rotate +- 90° so try that

– try the emergency stop button

I guess that's most things I can think of. Am I missing anything?

What do you mean "fit new controls?" You mean like a VFD for the spindle? Not sure what else I would need to change (besides maybe a BOB).

regards,

Randy

hi Barrie,

Thanks for all that. It's actually 2500 for the lot and I estimated being able to sell the parts I don't need for 600 or so, which is where the 1900 came from. Maybe it will work out better, maybe not. If I had a truck and and a bit more room in my apartment I might drive right down like you say. It's expensive but it seems to be such a good deal that in the worst case I could resell for roughly what I got it for.

>looks like the motor control is turned on or off by two wires coming from the CNC control

You think as is there is no speed control via computer? Do you think that is a three phase motor and I could put in a VFD, which is computer-controllable?

Is MT2 less desirable mostly because it's small? I suppose that will affect all my tool purchases too.

>You may have to start again on the whole control system just leaving the motors in place

So, I'd need to by new motor drivers + BOB? That would not be great. I assume this guy's set up is working and even if it's archaic I could at least start playing around with machining with it. I wonder if there's any chance the motors are some kind of servo motors. Or maybe they're something proprietary/funky from Wabeco.

I didn't have an accept/reject condition. I guess if the ways are bad that would be a rejection from me since I don't know how to scrape them. Having gritty movement and tight spots could also be a show-stopper. Maybe tight spots can be fixed by adjusting the gibs? Severe backlash. Spindle not working, motor not working. Runout on the quill. I guess those would be the main things where I'd back away. Most other things I think can be fixed without too much problem.

I think I saw someone using that allen key you mention: https://youtu.be/_lpMJQ0Jnn4?t=381

I haven't watched all 10 parts of that guy's extremely thorough rundown of the F1210 but I guess it's quite informative. That's good you mentioned the allen key. I hadn't thought of it and it would be a pain to get home and find it's not part of the deal.

If I only get what's in the picture…how much more stuff would I need to buy before I can start doing simple projects? A few milling bits, some chunks of aluminum and some kind of vise (do I really need a super-expensive machinist's vise?)? Some kind of face mill? Coolant (or can I skip that and sacrifice speed?)? It feels like I wouldn't need a ton more stuff. I have some small machinists tools like indicators, mag stand, a basic square.

I'm struggling with the size. I think I might have to get rid of a sofa.

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hi Barrie

p.s. this is the ad, which I expect will disappear very soon since they guy sold it already after a flood of offers but if you want to see what was part of the potential haul: **LINK**

After doing some research into the lathe and other items … it would have been quite a good deal I think.

I believe the lathe is this **LINK**.

oh well. I learned a lot from the discussion with you and doing a quick deep dive into the CC-F1210 so next time…

yeah, unfortunately it's gone.

Normally things are exorbitant in CH but, like this workshop sale, occasionally something pops up. A month or so ago a sport camp put up an ad for a Myford Super 7 in like-new condition for $200. It was gone almost immediately.

sorry, I know this is way off-topic. But, pretty amazing huh? Golden needles in the haystack.

hi Barrie,

I know, nice huh. You got to be quick on the draw to get stuff like that though.

randy

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p.s. if you liked that Myford maybe you'd like this too: **LINK**

hi Barrie,

That looks nice, particularly the edges all look very clean. It interesting to hear the steps involved too.

In case you tried to look at the link I sent last night, it's already broken/gone. It was for a nice Schaublin lathe with tons of accessories and cutting tools for ~$500, which probably was worth more like $2-5k.