In my experience the smaller (300mm-450mm swing) industrial Chester Lathes are much of a muchness with the larger Warco's and with the Optimum's that Excel import; all perfectly good lathes which you'll be very satisfied with once set up.

This said, you would definitely be able to get a better lathe for the money be which is more feature rich and/or massive by buying used from a reputable dealer, but that's set against risk of faults developing or just wear, and I'm sure you've already weighed that up in deciding to buy new.

I would assume that the small/turret mills are a similar deal where Chester don't have a definitive lead over their direct competition, but can't justify that against first hand experience, as the new mills I've used have been XYZ's (even in workshops where they bought Chester or Optimum lathes). I don't know why exactly, but it might have been XYZ's good "ProTrak" style conversational CNC terminal offering which made them more versatile as a manual/CNC cross over.

From experience I would strongly suggest getting a turret mill with an ISO40 taper if you can fit one in, it opens up serious high quality tooling for very reasonable prices on the used market, and gives you the stiffness to use the machine's power to its fullest (you feel the benefit mostly when cutting gears or using a face mill).

Ultimately in your shoes, I would draw up a list of the machines you want and the minimum spec, then email or ring all the importers and (new) dealers going "this is what I want, what's your best offer all in?" and maybe angle for sweeteners like tooling or DRO fitment.

With 20K and that tactic, I would expect to be able to walk out with a decent Mill, Lathe, Surface Grinder, and several ancillaries (Box Column Drill, Bandsaw(s), Dividing Head compatible with your mill, Universal/D-bit Grinder, Pedestal Grinder, Press etc.) by leveraging the fact you're willing to drop a big chunk of change.

Edited By Jelly on 22/10/2022 23:30:57

Yeah!

With the cash Daedalus has available he could probably spend half on getting wholly satisfactory machines and half on adding extra space for the 30+ years of stuff which will be made, needed or otherwise accumulated in pursuit of their hobby.

In retrospect I definitely regret not expanding my workshop when I had the chance, but maybe I'm just a terrible hoarder.

Hi Daedalus

I can't comment on the Chester tools range as I am not familiar with them. I live in Australia.

I assume you already have a big enough shed, noting that the bigger machines do need additional room for installation and for working around, in addition to their footprint. A very solid floor is also a requirement.

I was in a similar position to you some years ago with a similar budget ( corrected for inflation ) and purchased a larger turret mill with an NT40 ( ISO40? ) taper and 5 HP motor ( sort of a Bridgeport on steroids ). It weighs about 1.5 tonnes bare.

Note that BT40 tooling can be converted to NT40 via the use of a suitable adapter. This can be useful with BT tooling becoming much more available and frequently cheaper than the equivalent NT tooling.

I also purchased a 410 by 1000 lathe – 7.5 HP and close to two tonnes bare with the integral cast iron base. Apart from its large mass and stability this lathe has the advantage of a large through bore on the spindle and a gear box that will do an enormous number of threads

Both were Australian sourced and branded ( obviously as I live in Australia ) Chinese machines although critical parts were made in South Korea. I expect similar products would be available in Britain.

Advantages of the bigger machines – you can do more things more easily. Little things in my case are not a problem as I have smaller machines for smaller jobs.

Disadvantages – apart from the space issue mentioned above, 3 phase power is required, costs for tooling and accessories are higher ( much higher for some items ) and everything is much heavier. Lifting equipment will likely be required for changing chucks, lifting rotary tables and vices – if not now then in a few years!

Looking back I am very satisfied with my decision to buy these machines and hope that you will be similarly happy with whatever machines you decide upon.

Pero

It would be really cool to use the pit for eg a rise up welding table giving you some extra manoeuvring space when down.

I would do your research before considering an Optimum. Their reputation for quality is not great. They may be labelled "Germany" but they are made in China. The parent company may be based in Germany, or have a PO box there etc.

You could buy a new Harrison M300, that’s a very nice lathe.

For the kind of money that we're talking about here, it occured to me that contacting a smaller manufacturer direct wouldn't be out of the question.

​

The one which jumped to mind was TRENS SK a.s. known as TOS Trencin before the fall of the wall, they're still making new machines, the prices aren't insane from what I've heard, and they're some of the best medium to large lathes ever designed, right up there with your DSG's, Lang's, Monarchs and American Pacemakers.

The SN50/SN500 seems to fit the bill, and is available in motors from 5.5kW to 7.5kW and spindle bores up to 105mm, and you get the 4-way joystick controlled infinitely variable, automatic stop power-feed system which is pure luxury.

Sure there's a faff element to a DIY import, but a good logistics company should be able to take the transport and customs bit off your hands as combined shipping and customs agent.

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The other obvious two are:

• Dean, Smith and Grace themselves, who sell factory rebuilt examples of their original (and excellent) line-up,and
• (as others have pointed out) the 600 Group (Harrison/Colchester/Hardinge/Bridgeport) who are still selling new.

I suspect that a rebuilt (and warrantied) DSG or a new "Trens" ex Slovenia would both be cheaper than and more satisfying than a new Colchester (or a new Chester).

I don't really get what you mean…

The Poles have long had an excellent reputation for making reliable, durable and accurate machine tools; branded variously as Poleba, Polameco, and Toolmex, most lathes were made by Fabryka Maszyn Andrechowska.

I'm not sure who did/does the mills, but they were a direct copy of the FNC25/32 design produced across multiple Soviet/Former Soviet states, which is amongst the best "turret type" milling machines in existence.

Ironically more common in the USA and Canada than here, where the Czechs with their direct land border with Austria seem to have cornered the pre-Taiwan (pre-pre-China?) market for import machine tools.

Edited By Jelly on 25/10/2022 13:47:55

My guess is that a UK/European Manufactured/Re-Manufactured lathe would probably be pushing at the the limits of your budget, but by the same token you are in the position where you could actually spend your whole lathe budget on a lathe, and be up and running from the day you take delivery, so maybe it's worth it?

The DSG's and the TOS/Trens's are both pretty heavy beasts, just massive (literally) amounts of cast iron used everywhere (especially in the headstock); my TOS toolroom lathe weighs in a 2 tonnes for a 320 x 1000 capacity, and a 13"x36" DSG is about 2.8 tonnes – both comparable in size with a Warco GH1330 which weighs about 580kg.

To match or slightly exceed the Triumph in size (Trens SU50 or DSG Type 15), you're looking at 3.8 – 4.5 tonnes with either of those brands.

DSG did do metric lathes and I would think most re-builds get new metric leadscrews and nuts…

As a near-complete aside in relation to DSG and leadscrews; I did see one (It could have been a Lang, but I'm pretty sure it was DSG) configured with dual leadscrews, a selector, two half-nut levers, and an interesting dual layer thread chasing dial, unsure if that was a factory special or a user improvement but always thought it was cool.

The TOS's from Trencin, the polish brands from Andrechowska, and the Stanko's all shared the rapid travel feature as part of their generally high specification, the difference (to my knowledge) is that the TOS and Polish lathes have a 4-way joystick on the apron, whilst the Stanko has a conventional feed selectors (two-position, or three when equipped with power top-slide) driven off the feed-shaft, and the rapid feeds are push-button controlled running a separate 3-phase motor mounted directly to the side of the apron.

Edited By Jelly on 26/10/2022 13:35:42

Glad to have been somewhat helpful.

If you did weigh things up and go the DSG route (with that 1307 or another similar lathe), then I can recommend both "R.R. Memmory Haulage" and "Hansard Haulage" for that kind of thing, moving heavy objects including machine tools, and Hiab-ing them on and off the wagons is their bread and butter so they can be just left to get on with it quite safely.

R.R. Memmory in particular also have some specialised smaller vehicles and trailers for delivering very heavy objects to locations that you'd normally only be able to access by car, which might be of assistance with the final leg to your workshop.

​

Regards a tool-post for the Trens SN32, my TOS S32 has the same Multifix B offered with the SN32 which works very well with 25mm tooling (25×130 is the "standard" holder for that size of toolpost, but it's sometimes easier to use the 32×140 holders for 25mm tools as they're less snug).

I believe the Cross Slide and Top Slide used on the SN32 is the same design as was used on the S32, and only the apron differs between them (on that assembly, there's other major differences).

Whilst it is possible my holders may have been modified by the previous owner to allow them to go lower to get on center with 25mm tools, but it doesn't look like they have; so I suspect Trens is just being conservative in their tech spec's.

Edited By Jelly on 26/10/2022 17:13:19