Sigma Jones / BCA jig borer

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Sigma Jones / BCA jig borer

This topic has 7 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 7 September 2022 at 13:26 by Rob Gough.

Viewing 8 posts - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)

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6 September 2022 at 17:32 #612591
Rob Gough
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@robgough74021
Hi,
I'm new to this forum, but hoping someone can help with regard to the history of the BCA jig borer. I'm current restoring one of the Sigma Jones variants and after reading the information on the lathes.co.uk site my initial understanding was that the machines were first made in the UK as Ultra & Excel sometime around the beginning of WWII, then as Sigma Jones from 1947 and finally becoming BCA in the mid/late 50's. However, I've recently seen a Sigma Jones for sales with a stated date of manufacture of 1939. Re-reading the data I can find on-line I'm now confused. Tony describes the 'early' machines as Ultra/Excel, but uses 'also' in reference to the Sigma Jones, implying they were contemporary. But then going on to link them with the Herbert acquiring Sigma Instruments in 1947. Can anyone please clarify the periods when machine was marketed under the various designations?
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6 September 2022 at 17:32 #14655
Rob Gough
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@robgough74021
7 September 2022 at 07:58 #612646
Michael Gilligan
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@michaelgilligan61133
Not really answering your question, Rob … but you might want to make note of this: **LINK**

https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Bloctube_Controls

MichaelG.

.

Edit: __ also, if you are not already aware: https://tengamachinetools.com/

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 07/09/2022 08:03:52
7 September 2022 at 08:40 #612648
Phil P
Participant
@philp
Again…….Not answering your question but I believe my Boley & Leinen jig borer was made pre-war and was the one that ended up being BCA after a few other variants such as Sigma Jones during and after WW2.
7 September 2022 at 09:36 #612650
Clive Foster
Participant
@clivefoster55965
I think the short answer to this confusion is multiple source suppliers with contracts being let to various firms to make the same thing under arrangements more akin to shadow factories than simple contracts used for more mundane items.

The design authority was the Machine Tool Control Rationalisation Board who issued production licences for the standard design to various suppliers. Presumably factory branding was permitted so that, if there were problems, the offending supplier could be identified and to to sort out the issue. I imagine the factories would have embedded ministry inspectors, whether full or part time, to ensure things were kept up to scratch just as the aircraft production folk did.

In the absence of any hard data as to when licences were issued and production actually started its quite creditable that machines from one, or more, suppliers could have been produced in 1939.

Does anyone know when the Machine Tool Control Rationalisation Board was set up? Around 1935 would be my guess as that when the shadow factory ideas were first implemented.

Clive
7 September 2022 at 10:08 #612657
Dave Halford
Participant
@davehalford22513
Posted by Rob Gough on 06/09/2022 17:32:42:

Hi,
I'm new to this forum, but hoping someone can help with regard to the history of the BCA jig borer. I'm current restoring one of the Sigma Jones variants and after reading the information on the lathes.co.uk site my initial understanding was that the machines were first made in the UK as Ultra & Excel sometime around the beginning of WWII, then as Sigma Jones from 1947 and finally becoming BCA in the mid/late 50's. However, I've recently seen a Sigma Jones for sales with a stated date of manufacture of 1939. Re-reading the data I can find on-line I'm now confused. Tony describes the 'early' machines as Ultra/Excel, but uses 'also' in reference to the Sigma Jones, implying they were contemporary. But then going on to link them with the Herbert acquiring Sigma Instruments in 1947. Can anyone please clarify the periods when machine was marketed under the various designations?

Hi Rob,

This was simply badge engineering with machines spread over several named makers mostly owned by one parent as mentioned below. So there is very unlikely to be a definite progression of companies. The the same manner the Austin 1100 was also made at the same time as the Wolsley 1100 and Riley 1100.

However, even this is not certain, for it was also stated in contemporary Elliott catalogues that their machines were made: "… at the works of our subsidiary and associated companies whose whole output of machine tools and equipment is solely controlled by us." The clue lies in the word associated, for Elliot had enough buying power to commission, and then re-brand, machines from a several independent UK makers.
7 September 2022 at 10:28 #612659
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
I have no evidence that it exists, but … it would be nice to think that lurking somewhere in the depths of the MoD there is a document pre-dating, but similar in style to this one about Leitz : **LINK**

https://www.angelfire.com/biz/Leica/page26.html

MichaelG.
7 September 2022 at 13:26 #612678
Rob Gough
Participant
@robgough74021
Thanks for all the input.

I've also found in Hansard that the Minister of Supply was asked (August 1940) what grounds there were for taking control of EH Jones and what qualifications a Mr Farrell and Mr Muirsmith had for running the business. There is also a document about this, as part of the Defense Regulations 1939, at the National Archive but you have to visit Kew to see it and I'm too far away.

Taking all the comments into consideration it feels like the general view is that EH Jones (under government control) could have been marketing the machine as Sigma Jones during WWII, at the same time Elliot where marketing it as Excel and Ultra.
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