Meddings Pillar Drill chuck change

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Meddings Pillar Drill chuck change

This topic has 22 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 29 March 2022 at 13:17 by Martin Chamberlain.

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20 February 2022 at 11:30 #586396
Martin Chamberlain
Participant
@martinchamberlain57475
Hi,

The chuck is getting a bit knackered and was hoping to change it for a nice new one I aquired but upon inspection of the quill noticed there is no slot for a 'Drift' (?) taper key to dislodge a Tapered shaft.

At the base of the quill is a knurled free spinning round 'nut' which does seem to engage with some threaded…? part but can find no way of removing the chuck.

There is no drawbar up to the spline… No little screw inside the chuck.. I have administered reasonable force to the top of the chuck… But nothing…

All I can see is what may be a few mm's of an mt2 at the top of the chuck.

Has anyone had any experience here.. I did phone Meddings and was met with a youthful 'Dunno mate..' Work experience day probably..
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20 February 2022 at 11:30 #14474
Martin Chamberlain
Participant
@martinchamberlain57475
approx 1950’s Floor standing.
20 February 2022 at 12:34 #586407
JohnF
Participant
@johnf59703
Hi Martin, what model is your machine? Maybe a photo will help to ID the machine or see the problem

John
20 February 2022 at 12:42 #586410
Hopper
Participant
@hopper
If the chuck is mounted on a male taper on the end of the spindle, you may have to use tapered wedges to remove chuck from its taper. You can buy such wedges made for the purpose. But you need to be sure that is how the chuck i smounted before applying such force. Pics would help.
20 February 2022 at 13:04 #586413
SillyOldDuffer
Moderator
@sillyoldduffer
This Instructables explains wedges quite well. ArcEurotrade used to sell wedges but it looks as if they only have drifts at the moment.

Dave
20 February 2022 at 13:42 #586417
Martin Chamberlain
Participant
@martinchamberlain57475
Hi Guys Thank you for your responses.

I do have some pics of the offending Chuck but am unsure how to upload them.. Advice plis..

If the chuck had an internal taper (B?..) I think my pounding on the top of the chuck with a narrow bolster would have dislodged it and have previoulsy attempted a 'Wedge' seperation again with violent encouragement but was fearful of damaging some other part.

I beleive this is probably the original chuck to the drill. The only thing I havent tried is to put the chuck key in and smack it to the left with a big 'ammer.. I doubt this was common practice back then and have only seen this on certain electric hand drills..

I think this strange 'floating' nut has a part to play but ???…
20 February 2022 at 19:04 #586472
John Paton 1
Participant
@johnpaton1
Martin, have you tried phoning Meddings (Ivybridge, Devon)? I have found them very helpful although their knowledge of early machines is a bit hot and mess as the older workforce have now retired.

Of the early drills I have seen the larger ones had a MT internal taper with slot through the quill for use of a freeing wedge. The medium and smaller drills had male Jacobs tapers and require shallow tapered folding wedges to spring the chuck off ( drive them together hard then tap the chuck and the shock will release its grip on the taper) as Hopper has advised.

I am not sure what arrangement the more recent Meddings drills have but suspect it is still a Jacobs taper.

hope this helps

John
20 February 2022 at 19:43 #586476
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
have previoulsy attempted a 'Wedge' seperation again with violent encouragement

One wedge is inefficient and likely even counter-productive – especially with violent encouragement!

You need two proper wedges acting in opposite directions, thus providing a force in the direction of ejection.

Generally, ejection only need a ‘stop’ on one wedge and the other tapping with a mallet. I use them whenever I need to eject a morse taper from my my mills, if more than gentle persuasion is needed for removal.

The wedges need to have a long taper, so they overlap each other when in use.
20 February 2022 at 20:14 #586482
DC31k
Participant
@dc31k
This thread has some useful information:

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=165978&p=1

Dimensions for wedges, should you wish to make your own as attached (derived from measuring the ones supplied by Arc).
21 February 2022 at 08:47 #586542
Martin Chamberlain
Participant
@martinchamberlain57475
Hi Guys,

Thank you again. The consensus does seem to favor some form of wedged fitting. Jacobs, Morse et al.

I have managed to open a gallery (Marcham med chuck8) with a few pics of the knurled nut in up and down positions. Travel of about 10mm.

There is a freely rotating threaded section inside this nut which in my view may work as folding wedges but with a tool that is no longer with the machine.. Possibly a short lived experiment by Meddings..

I do not beleive this nut was used for holding the depth stop as there is enough of the quill showing to fix there.

I do not think my skills (or machinery) would encompase actually making wedges and for the time being I am hoping that someone may recognise/or have this unusual arrangement themselves.
21 February 2022 at 10:34 #586576
Martin Chamberlain
Participant
@martinchamberlain57475
Hi Mr Moderator Dave,

Sorry, I did not realise the 'Indestructables' was a link.. (Duh..)

I am unfamiliar with the site but looks very much worth exploring. Thank you.

The article you reference does show what appears to be a similar aparatus for chuck dis-lodgement and can see the thinking behind it and possiblly why Meddings attempted it..

I wish to dislodge the quill shaft rather than just knocking off the chuck leaving a 'B' stub which will not accomodate my new chuck with a 1/2" UNF 20 fitting.
21 February 2022 at 11:42 #586587
roy entwistle
Participant
@royentwistle24699
If your new chuck has a screw fitting, it will have to be screwed to an arbor. Quills on drilling machines are not usually threaded.

Roy
21 February 2022 at 12:44 #586602
AJAX
Participant
@ajax
Martin, you may find this link useful to identify your machine.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/meddings-pacera/

I had a look at your album photos but was unable to find a match. Are you sure it is a meddings? I used to have a startrite drill with something similar looking on the arbour. Wife has a 10 speed startrite with an epicyclic gearbox on the spindle but it accepts a standard mt2 chuck. Also have other Meddings drills but they are Morse taper too.

If you unscrew that knurled ring upwards, does it act as an extractor?
21 February 2022 at 12:48 #586604
AJAX
Participant
@ajax
If you need wedges, I've found it easy to make disposable ones using an angle grinder and scraps of mild steel flat.
21 February 2022 at 12:53 #586605
Martin Chamberlain
Participant
@martinchamberlain57475
Hi,

I apologise for any confusion.. I meant to dislodge the Arbor from the quill.

I assumed that most (if not all..) quills will have a tapered Arbor as an insert with various stubbs or threads to accomodate a chuck.

I do not know enough about what options were used and why at any given time.

In my case I do not have a slot in the quill so that tells me.. It's not a tang.. And it's not a drawbar.. So…

Which the only logical option is a MT2/3 or JT released by folding wedges but which action may remove the chuck and not the arbor..
21 February 2022 at 13:02 #586608
AJAX
Participant
@ajax
Martin, you may find this drill has a fixed male arbor onto which a female chuck is mounted. If so, the arbor would not be removable so you should go easy on persuading it out. I can only recall one Meddings drill with a fixed arbour (possibly fitted with a B16 nose) but when I phoned Meddings they said it was a cheap import they had badged as Meddings — a short-lived trial if I understood correctly. I don't think your drill falls into that category.
21 February 2022 at 13:07 #586610
Martin Chamberlain
Participant
@martinchamberlain57475
Hi Ajax,

Yes its a Meddings Pacera MF2.. 'F' for floor standing.

There is a 4 part Pacera MB4 re-build vid on YT which unfortunatly just skirts around the chuck but it does look like he has the 'floating collar/nut' but fits a drill guard onto it so.. I am still guessing..

As to making some wedges I may well need to go down that route but as I mentioned above I don't want to just knock the chuck off..

Perhaps there is a little grub screw I have missed..
21 February 2022 at 13:12 #586611
AJAX
Participant
@ajax
Martin,

This web page states the knurled component is the chuck extractor, as I previously suggested.

https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/pillar-drill-identification.65649/

I hope that helps,

Brian
21 February 2022 at 13:17 #586613
Martin Chamberlain
Participant
@martinchamberlain57475
Hi Ajax,

We overlapped there..

Your description sounds quite convincing.

If it's a cheap import I don't think they would have fitted this floating nut thing which is quite complicated.

I am beginning to think I should remove the quill and bore it out on the lathe. I do have an MT3 Reamer.. but I didn't really want to turn this into a big project..

Aaaargh What to do..
21 February 2022 at 13:25 #586615
Martin Chamberlain
Participant
@martinchamberlain57475
Ajax,

Thank you.. Nice one..

Would not have thought to look under Mig Welding..

But there it is and referred to as a chuck extractor so I shall follow this thread ..

Thanks again.
21 February 2022 at 14:18 #586620
Martin Chamberlain
Participant
@martinchamberlain57475
I have added the Meddings MF2 description to my photo's album and clearly states an MT1 spindle but also under accessories is a Woodworkers Mortice chisel set which would probably have fitted to this floating 'nut'..

I shall lavish it in WD40 prior to attempting the rotary nut option..

If no response I am probably in ICU..

Thanks everyone for your assistance..
21 February 2022 at 14:25 #586621
Andrew Tinsley
Participant
@andrewtinsley63637
Don't bother with WD 40. It isn't a penetrating fluid. Use Plus Gas or similar if you want it to penetrate!

Andrew.
29 March 2022 at 13:17 #591919
Martin Chamberlain
Participant
@martinchamberlain57475
I return after a brief hiatus to conclude this post.

See the few new photo's to see what I found.

I managed to extract the splined shaft from its Bearings and came out with the chuck attached.

That involved a LOT of pounding. (Careful pounding of course..)

After unsuccesfully applying a Gas torch I resorted to complete anihilation of the chuck with an angle grinder and eventually I was presented with a B20 stub.. huzzah..!

So.. NO Morse taper..

I still do not know what purpose the knurled nut played in the scheme of things.. It may have been broken..

I Tapped the B20 stub to accept my new chuck and re-assembled with relative ease.

The only blood drawn was when I was removing the Hand wheel shaft and it suddenly dis-engaged the coil spring and the containing 'canister..' flew off and the spring caught my little finger.. Ouchie.. I then discovered a little grub screw which holds the spring canister in place (See pics).

The spring canister has 2 x 5mm holes through the cover to be used with an appropriate pin tool (Like an angle grinder spanner..) to rotate and re-tighten the spring and then the grub screw to hold it in place.

Overall I am glad I did it at zero cost as it is a substantial tool and the long quill proves very usefull.

Thanks again guys for your assistance.
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