Power feeds for Chinese mills

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Power feeds for Chinese mills

This topic has 45 replies, 23 voices, and was last updated 18 March 2022 at 21:12 by Roger Best.

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9 November 2020 at 11:28 #506163
Dave Sawdon 1
Participant
@davesawdon1
I recently bought a Warco WM18B and am now wondering about power feed for the table and (maybe) the column.

The Warco price for a power table feed is over £350, which seems rather OTT for a motor, speed control and attachments. I'd prefer not to spend weeks designing and making something, but are there any other options? I think most use would be for quickly moving the table between regions (it's quite a long table), rather than during milling, so something quite crude would probably do.

I don't think a power raise/lower is available for the column, but it would be a useful addition.
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9 November 2020 at 11:28 #14081
Dave Sawdon 1
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@davesawdon1
9 November 2020 at 11:31 #506164
David Maynard 4
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@davidmaynard4
Ade's Workshop on YouTube has recently done just this. A long series of videos……
9 November 2020 at 11:46 #506168
ChrisB
Participant
@chrisb35596
Have a look at this thread: **LINK**

You can skip the clutch part to simplify things. Nothing wrong with Ade's powerfeed, but I believe a direct drive rather than belt drive is simpler and more compact.

As for raising and lowering the column, I plan to use a similar motor controlled by the same speed controller, a switch will select which axis to move.

This is what mine looks like in operation.

Edited By ChrisB on 09/11/2020 11:55:31
9 November 2020 at 12:11 #506175
mechman48
Participant
@mechman48
Have a look in my album 'X axis drive' I've used a 12v two speed wiper motor, a PWM with speed controller from eBay, & a spare 1/4 drive universal joint + spare sockets modified to be spring loaded; crude but it works fine for me.

George.
9 November 2020 at 20:46 #506300
Roger Best
Participant
@rogerbest89007
That's great George.

I have wondered why people keep jumping to steppers and fancy tech. Those of us with model railways probably prefer a simpler way forward.

Dave Sawdon – the 18B is a new "hot" model – how about a review?
9 November 2020 at 22:18 #506314
Paul Lousick
Participant
@paullousick59116
The Warco power feed also incorporates a gearbox as well as a motor and speed control but at £350 is OTT and the same units are available on ebay for much less but you will not have the backup of a local supplier.

Paul.

Edited By JasonB on 10/11/2020 07:06:05
10 November 2020 at 06:48 #506334
ChrisB
Participant
@chrisb35596
Posted by Roger Best on 09/11/2020 20:46:08:

That's great George.

I have wondered why people keep jumping to steppers and fancy tech. Those of us with model railways probably prefer a simpler way forward.

What's the fancy tech in a stepper motor power feed? It's ok if you prefer to recycle a wiper motor and adapt it to yours, but there's nothong to wonder about people using alternate more up to date methods…each to their own I suppose?
10 November 2020 at 08:16 #506342
David Holloway 5
Participant
@davidholloway5
Just a thought on Warco mill power feeds. . I bought a new VM mill and also a power feed via Warco. It is a unit made in China of course . Sitting down one evening the power tripped off . Traced it back to the power feed armature . Total short circuit . Bang went £350 No joy trying to obtain a new armature and it seems these are considered a throw away item. I found an almost identical unit, brand new on that "selling website" for £125 . An identical amount of fitting required for the new one required as the old expensive unit. Ho hum..
10 November 2020 at 09:46 #506370
Alan Wood 4
Participant
@alanwood4
I have just finished fitting steppers to my Myford VMB manual mill.

Write up here.

Alan
10 November 2020 at 10:54 #506395
john fletcher 1
Participant
@johnfletcher1
Some twenty or more years ago I made a power table feed for my Naerok bench top mill, using an up and down car window motor, g/box gears from a redundant photo copier, dog clutch and home brew speed controller from a circuit in ME. I have forward, reverse and speed control, at almost zero cost as I think all the electronic components came from a washing machine speed board. and it has never let me down. If any one has any ideas on how to power the up down of the head or making the machine into a boring one, I would like to communicate with them. John
10 November 2020 at 13:43 #506438
Dave Sawdon 1
Participant
@davesawdon1
David Holloway 5: eBay item number EDIT Deleted see CofC is tempting, is this similar to the one you bought?

I haven't used a power feed since doing a short course on a Bridgeport 35+ years ago. I presume the type with a bevel gear (and appear to hang off the lead screw) don't have clutches, so do they cause a lot of drag when the table is moved manually?

Edited to say: On reflection, the sort of power feed with a bevel gear probably hangs down too far for a WM18B

Edited By Dave Sawdon 1 on 10/11/2020 14:30:17

Edited By JasonB on 10/11/2020 14:51:12
10 November 2020 at 17:14 #506499
Roger Best
Participant
@rogerbest89007
Awesome write-up Alan.
10 November 2020 at 17:42 #506507
Roger Best
Participant
@rogerbest89007
Posted by ChrisB on 10/11/2020 06:48:42:

Posted by Roger Best on 09/11/2020 20:46:08:

That's great George.

I have wondered why people keep jumping to steppers and fancy tech. Those of us with model railways probably prefer a simpler way forward.

What's the fancy tech in a stepper motor power feed? It's ok if you prefer to recycle a wiper motor and adapt it to yours, but there's nothong to wonder about people using alternate more up to date methods…each to their own I suppose?

Obviously Chris you are right about steppers being controllable and readily available, and easy for those who understand the drivers.

I will admit to an unpleasant formative experience building a 5-axis CNC that blew up the drivers every time I made a goof in the programming, they where less sophisticated in those days.

My interest in wiper motors is firstly that I have one in the loft and secondly that I feel we only need two or three speeds for most use; fast traverse, stock removal and finish milling/flycutting. The other parameter, spindle speed, is usually readily and accurately adjustable to fit the application. So a simple drive does the job.

What do people think?
10 November 2020 at 18:23 #506520
john fletcher 1
Participant
@johnfletcher1
Rodger, check that your wiper motor will reverse, some won't, wiper motors are really durable. If you send me a PM, I will send you a copy of the simple electronic speed control which I used. For forward and reverse I use a double pole double throw change over switch. The dog clutch dis-engages the motor drive, so that I use the mill manually. John
10 November 2020 at 18:56 #506538
Martin Connelly
Participant
@martinconnelly55370
Clearly Roger you haven't been paying attention to any threads regarding feed rates to suit the tool in use if you think one speed fits all.

Martin C
10 November 2020 at 19:58 #506553
Roger Best
Participant
@rogerbest89007
Posted by Martin Connelly on 10/11/2020 18:56:43:

Clearly Roger you haven't been paying attention to any threads regarding feed rates to suit the tool in use if you think one speed fits all.

Martin C

None whatsoever, I am only worried about surface speed, which is determined by the spindle, and gives surface finish along the grooves, and the pitch of the surface finish across the grooves, within the power limits of the machine obviously. I am not worried about reducing machining time by a few minutes, but that is just my, simple world view.

What we are discussing is the requirements and specification for any drive, which informs the decision to make or buy.

How important is total flexibility? If traverse rate is so important why don't drives for manual mills have speedometers?
10 November 2020 at 20:07 #506557
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Posted by Roger Best on 10/11/2020 19:58:34:

None whatsoever, I am only worried about surface speed, which is determined by the spindle, and gives surface finish along the grooves, and the pitch of the surface finish across the grooves, within the power limits of the machine obviously. I am not worried about reducing machining time by a few minutes, but that is just my, simple world view.

So how would that work with a single tooth flycutter, or 2, 3 or 4 flute milling cutters. each would leave a different "pitch" for your single feed rate.

The good mills with inbuilt power feeds have a table of rates

It's probably easier to wire up with a pot that will give variable speed than it is to have switching for set rates. You then have the option to leave it it one position or make use of the vari speed.

Edited By JasonB on 10/11/2020 20:10:28
10 November 2020 at 20:17 #506562
Roger Best
Participant
@rogerbest89007
The simple answer is change the spindle speed, so that the cut is of appropriate size.

Modern electronic controls have 25:1 speed adjustment, its not difficult.

How many speeds do you use Jason, which are the most useful?
10 November 2020 at 20:38 #506572
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
I change spindle speed to suit the material, cutter diameter and cutter material so could be running anywhere between 100rpm on say a HSS slitting saw to upto my max of 5000rpm on 6mm or less carbide cutters just on mild steel

Feeds would be based on chip load so as that is calculated with spindle speed, number of teeth, type of cut and rigidity of cutter could be anything from 30mm/min to 600mm/min. For exampleI would feed a 6 insert facemill at maybe 12 times what I would a similar diameter flycutter with HSS insert, if I slowed the insert cutter to give the same "pitch" as the flycutter chip load would be so small I would be rubbing which blunts the inserts.
10 November 2020 at 20:44 #506574
Roger Best
Participant
@rogerbest89007
11 November 2020 at 21:27 #506885
IRT
Participant
@irt
Has anyone tried to fit the cheaper Chinese option of the AL-310 power feed to the WM18/GH18 mill? It looks very similar to the other options.

Do they fit? What additional parts would be purchased or manufactured?
12 November 2020 at 15:31 #507013
William Chitham
Participant
@williamchitham75949
Plus one for cheap and cheerful, install was easy and seems to work well enough, not sure if these are available in the flat orientation though.

Edited By William Chitham on 12/11/2020 15:33:03
5 July 2021 at 14:24 #552722
Terry Kirkup
Participant
@terrykirkup37827
Hi All. After a great deal of hair-tearing and some great info from John Haine and others on here and the Tube I've just taken the plunge and bought these bits. I'm not clever enough to be interested in CNC stuff but just want a rapid winder for my WM18B mill's x-axis. I hope I'm on the right track with this kit but would like to know what else I need to get the motor to work, aside from the obvious drive belt and pulleys, or similar drive connection. I'm a firm believer in K.I.S.S.
5 July 2021 at 15:09 #552726
Martin Connelly
Participant
@martinconnelly55370
There should be three outputs from the small controller circuit board for step, direction and enable. These should connect to similarly labelled terminals on the driver module with a common 0/ground/earth connection. This assumes (always risky) that there is no need for pull up or down resistors on the three signal wires. If it works when connected fine, if not we can consider the fix to pull up or pull down the signals wires that needs to be done (it's simple but if you don't need to think about it why would you).

Connect the motor extensions to the driver module, this should be in accordance with the supplied information for the module. Connect the extensions to the motor tails.

Connect the power supply output to the driver module. If the input voltage for the board matches the power supply output voltage connect that up as well, if it is a different voltage you need a small voltage regulator board that can take the output from the power supply and reduce it to the voltage for the control circuit board. Connect the regulator to the power supply and then to the controller board.

Connect mains to the power supply and see if the driver module power lights come on, the motor will either lock in position or turn if there is any signal from the controller. The controller power light should come on. Pressing the controller buttons and turning the knob will hopefully get the motor turning.

So in summary, if the controller needs a different supply voltage than the power supply output a small regulator board is needed, otherwise you should have all you need to add some wires and try it out.

Martin C
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