Warco WM 16 VS woes

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Warco WM 16 VS woes

This topic has 20 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 9 October 2022 at 17:55 by Anonymous.

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13 November 2019 at 16:53 #13698
Sam Longley 1
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@samlongley1
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13 November 2019 at 16:53 #437110
Sam Longley 1
Participant
@samlongley1
Unfortunately I have a Warco WM 16 VS item No. 3217 year of manufacture 2015.

I appear to have stripped a gear on the low speed option, although I cannot see it very well. Probably the famous plastic one that I have heard about.

I have removed the motor cover & the front cover, but cannot work out how one gets to the gears to remove them & replace. Assuming they can be replaced. (Otherwise it will be the skip & a proper mill!!)

Can anyone who has solved this, give me some guidance on how one should approach the problem (not the skip solution, although I am sorely tempted)

Many thanks in advance
13 November 2019 at 17:32 #437119
Stuart Smith 5
Participant
@stuartsmith5
I have a Warco WM 16 of similar vintage which I bought secondhand earlier this year. I found a comprehensive manual for what appears to be the same design on the Grizzly (USA) website model G0704. It has a couple of expanded drawings and parts list. If you do a google search for 'grizzlyg0704 gear' there are a few comments and YouTube videos showing how to replace the gears.

Link to grizzly manual:

**LINK**
13 November 2019 at 17:49 #437124
mechman48
Participant
@mechman48
DON'T Skip it ! they are not cheap to start with. I have a WM 16 of 2012 vintage; fortunately not in your situation ( not trying to sound smug honestly ) Look in the manual at the exploded 'head schematic' & you should be able to figure out how to remove the plastic gear (sacrificial, precisely why it's there ). I changed the spindle out of mine using the same schematic a couple of years ago due to a cracked MT taper, fairly easy to do. There are steel gears that can be substituted but can't recall where from at the mo'. If you don't have the manual I can mail a scan of said page to you if you PM me.

Some owners have replaced the gear system with a belt drive set up which will eliminate the problem altogether giving any 'jam ups' the opportunity for 'belt slip'. IIRC there is a USA site that has the material to do this …'Grizzly' & if I remember there was a write up to do this on their version… Grizzly 0704 I believe, have a look see. I have considered doing this mod with mine but as the old engineering cliché goes… 'if it aint broke don't fix it ' so…

George
13 November 2019 at 17:50 #437126
mechman48
Participant
@mechman48
p.s. Stuart posted as I was typing…

G
13 November 2019 at 19:35 #437150
mechman48
Participant
@mechman48
Sam for your att….

George.
13 November 2019 at 19:35 #437151
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Brian over on MEM had the same problem with is similar machine a while ago, some pics from his post may help here
13 November 2019 at 20:15 #437157
alan ord 2
Participant
@alanord2
Sam, I had the same problem with my Chester 20VS. Plastic gear stripped 3 – 4 years ago.Contacted Chester who supplied a replacement gear set free of charge. Decided to continue using the mill in high gear only until it eventually fails and would then replace the gears. Still waiting for the high gear to fail !! Never had any problems using the the mill without the low gear. There are a couple of videos on You Tube explaining how to change the gear.
14 November 2019 at 07:47 #437204
Sam Longley 1
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@samlongley1
Thanks for the help everyone. The information about the match to the Grizzly was useful as that took me to the videos. The higher gear does work still, but, presumably, that is putting greater load on the motor, which is showing signs of early departure from this world. Cannot tell why though, as it has done very little work.

I think that the gear failed because it seems that it was not engaging fully when in the locked position

Now I know how to strip the machine I will take a look inside. There is obviously something very wrong with this mill as I have not been able to do much milling with it. It vibrates so badly that just drilling holes is difficult, as it flexes like a lump of jelly.

Not one of my better purchases

Thanks again

Sam L
14 November 2019 at 10:04 #437218
Vic
Participant
@vic
It’s sounds like you should move it on Sam and get something else?
14 November 2019 at 16:56 #437282
Sam Longley 1
Participant
@samlongley1
Today I ordered the new gear at the cost of an arm, a leg & a bowl of blood.

Because my mill is bolted to some steel to raise the standard cupboard 9 inches higher, I cannot easily move it to get round the back. Therefore, I have removed the head & put it on a bench.

Looking at the gear it seems to me that it should be possibly to make a new pair of wheels in brass & silver solder them together as a pair. Alternatively make a set in plastic from some tufnol whale or Oilon (I actually have that). Fairly cheap in plastic, so can make some mistakes first, without too much expense.

Has anyone tried that? What gear cutter do I need? I have a friend with several milling machines to make them on & he has all the other bits I would need. Never tried it before but seems to me to be worth a go.
14 November 2019 at 19:49 #437306
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 14/11/2019 16:56:54:

Today I ordered the new gear ….

… Has anyone tried that? What gear cutter do I need? I have a friend with several milling machines to make them on & he has all the other bits I would need. Never tried it before but seems to me to be worth a go.

I think I would have ordered a set, not just the one gear…

Check the diameter, count the teeth and a quick calculation later you can order the appropriate cutter(s). HPC gears likely can supply the gears in any material you might care to specify. Probably need some form of lubrication delivery, if in metal.

Edited By not done it yet on 14/11/2019 19:50:52
19 September 2020 at 20:26 #496778
Nathaniel Poate
Participant
@nathanielpoate11077
Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 14/11/2019 16:56:54:

Has anyone tried that? What gear cutter do I need? I have a friend with several milling machines to make them on & he has all the other bits I would need. Never tried it before but seems to me to be worth a go.

If you were wondering, my machine uses a 37 tooth 1.25mm pitch helical gear Right handed at 9 degrees. The gear itself is 10mm depth and the boss is 5mm tall, diameter approx 23.5mm. Bore of 15mm with a 5mm keyway.

iI modelled mine in solidworks toolbox and 3d printed a gear. Working well for an initial try, not fully reassembled head to body yet so not tried milling either.
7 November 2021 at 12:47 #570271
Iain Hogg
Participant
@iainhogg97147
Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 14/11/2019 16:56:54:

Today I ordered the new gear at the cost of an arm, a leg & a bowl of blood.

Looking at the gear it seems to me that it should be possibly to make a new pair of wheels in brass & silver solder them together as a pair.

Higher quality sacrificial gears, made from engineering nylon rather than the soft grey plastic, for the WM16, G0704 etc are readily available on eBay at lower cost than the Warco versions. Just search milling machine sacrificial gears.

I purchased two of these upgraded gears and after 12 months have now only just stripped the first one (drive gear) – whereas with the Warco version I was going through 3 or 4 a year. The nylon versions are much stronger and give you a bit more leeway before stripping while still protecting the metal parts.

I have seen various posts regarding making brass versions of these gears but ONLY the hi/lo changeover gear should be made in metal retaining a softer sacrificial drive gear (which is the easier to change anyway). Doing this the other way round and making a metal drive gear and retaining the soft hi/lo gear will just lead to frustration.
30 July 2022 at 14:04 #607889
William Hepburn
Participant
@williamhepburn50863
Posted by mechman48 on 13/11/2019 17:49:03:

Some owners have replaced the gear system with a belt drive set up which will eliminate the problem altogether giving any 'jam ups' the opportunity for 'belt slip'. IIRC there is a USA site that has the material to do this …'Grizzly' & if I remember there was a write up to do this on their version… Grizzly 0704 I believe, have a look see. I have considered doing this mod with mine but as the old engineering cliché goes… 'if it aint broke don't fix it ' so…

I have now done away with the plastic gears altogether in my WM16 and installed the "belt conversion" designed for the G704.

Benefits are twofold – cooling is now not a problem as the motor is now left exposed (instead of cooped up in the cover) and if anything jams, the gears are not stripped. However, the underpowered 750w motor of the WM16 stalls long before the belt can slip. There is a 1100w motor available that can be substituted so when the 750w goes, so I'll be looking at that as a replacement.

The only slight niggles are that the drawbar is no longer self-releasing (due to the new belt drive spindle) and as the problematic hi/lo gear is no longer used, the speed change is now by changing the belt between two different sized pulleys. Not major hassles by any means.

Expensive conversion though (£600ish) and if I hadn't already spent time and money upgrading the WM16 I would probably have just bought an alternative mill.

Edited By William Hepburn on 30/07/2022 14:05:09

Edited By William Hepburn on 30/07/2022 14:06:07
8 October 2022 at 17:33 #616593
Gareth Hanson
Participant
@garethhanson19805
Hi,

I've just bought the Chester version of this mill. The Champion 20VS. I'm trying to do an initial strip and clean. I'm struggling to get the head off. I've undone the 2 bolts that hold it in place and stop it rotating. I can fully rotate the head but I can't seem to actually pull it off. I don't want to just apply brute force in case I damage something. Any advice?

Cheers, Gareth
9 October 2022 at 11:07 #616679
Hugh Stewart-Smith 1
Participant
@hughstewart-smith1
Gareth

You should find a small hole on the righthand side of the head where you access a grub screw which prevents the head coming off. It engages with the boss that the head swivels on. Sometimes there are 2 grub screws!

Hugh

Amadeal Ltd
9 October 2022 at 12:18 #616686
Gareth Hanson
Participant
@garethhanson19805
Posted by Hugh Stewart-Smith 1 on 09/10/2022 11:07:21:

Gareth

You should find a small hole on the righthand side of the head where you access a grub screw which prevents the head coming off. It engages with the boss that the head swivels on. Sometimes there are 2 grub screws!

Hugh

Amadeal Ltd

Thanks Hugh,

I did spot the small lug with what looks like a fine rotation adjustment screw. Do I just need to remove that part completely? Pic here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kaHnW7fSzF-_j4ATn6nqzqtKp06ijsLb/view?usp=sharing

I can't see any others. There's a thread at the bottom as you can see in the pic but it looks unused.

Cheers, Gareth
9 October 2022 at 12:33 #616688
Hugh Stewart-Smith 1
Participant
@hughstewart-smith1
Posted by Gareth Hanson on 09/10/2022 12:18:59:

Posted by Hugh Stewart-Smith 1 on 09/10/2022 11:07:21:

Gareth

You should find a small hole on the righthand side of the head where you access a grub screw which prevents the head coming off. It engages with the boss that the head swivels on. Sometimes there are 2 grub screws!

Hugh

Amadeal Ltd

Thanks Hugh,

I did spot the small lug with what looks like a fine rotation adjustment screw. Do I just need to remove that part completely? Pic here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kaHnW7fSzF-_j4ATn6nqzqtKp06ijsLb/view?usp=sharing

I can't see any others. There's a thread at the bottom as you can see in the pic but it looks unused.

Cheers, Gareth

It's the small whole at the bottom with the grub screw deep within – not visible from the outside and requires the right size Allen key to remove (trial and error!)

Hugh

Amadeal Ltd
9 October 2022 at 12:44 #616689
Gareth Hanson
Participant
@garethhanson19805
Posted by Hugh Stewart-Smith 1 on 09/10/2022 12:33:16:

Posted by Gareth Hanson on 09/10/2022 12:18:59:

Posted by Hugh Stewart-Smith 1 on 09/10/2022 11:07:21:

Gareth

You should find a small hole on the righthand side of the head where you access a grub screw which prevents the head coming off. It engages with the boss that the head swivels on. Sometimes there are 2 grub screws!

Hugh

Amadeal Ltd

Thanks Hugh,

I did spot the small lug with what looks like a fine rotation adjustment screw. Do I just need to remove that part completely? Pic here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kaHnW7fSzF-_j4ATn6nqzqtKp06ijsLb/view?usp=sharing

I can't see any others. There's a thread at the bottom as you can see in the pic but it looks unused.

Cheers, Gareth

It's the small whole at the bottom with the grub screw deep within – not visible from the outside and requires the right size Allen key to remove (trial and error!)

Hugh

Amadeal Ltd

Ahh, brill. I'll go and give that a go. Thanks Hugh.
9 October 2022 at 17:55 #616725
Anonymous
Posted by Stuart Smith 5 on 13/11/2019 17:32:27:

If you do a google search for 'grizzlyg0704 gear' there are a few comments and YouTube videos showing how to replace the gears.

OP… just remember to skip the one where the guy holds his phone in one hand to film the operation while he does the job, one-handed, with the other. Unless you have a very strong stomach.

Having done it on mine, I'd heartily endorse the belt drive option. Gets rid of all these problems and really quietens things down. It's a not-insignificant cost though.
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