My Toyo ML1

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My Toyo ML1

This topic has 47 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 14 December 2022 at 18:43 by Clifton Bain.

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15 July 2014 at 22:48 #157955
Pete Gilbert 1
Participant
@petegilbert1
Purchased off Ebay for £285 plus shipping. Swiss Army knife shown for size comparison.

I've already cut stainless steel, brass, ABS and nylon. In fact the stainless was being reduced within 10 mins of unboxing at home. (I always have important stuff delivered at work, as I once found eight quids worth of high speed RAM sticks under the bush by the door!!)

Oh, and this arrived today, from Axminster Tools

Axminster SIEG C0 Compound Slide

The locator on the underside is too big, so I'll have to modify it at work. 12mm dia with the T slots being only 8mm.

The T slot nut is rubbish as it's been tapped at an angle to it's own flats! So I'll be making another. Ironically, it has an 8mm locator flange, unlike the slide base!

This item is new, the red/orange bits here and there are what remains of the storage grease that I mostly washed off in the parts wash.

I'd really like a quick adjust tool post, but beggars can't be choosers at this stage.

Primary work for this machine will be improving or re-making various items for my RC planes. Such as eccentric propeller adaptors and light weight wheels etc.

It's all fun.
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15 July 2014 at 22:48 #12317
Pete Gilbert 1
Participant
@petegilbert1
This little beauty will be a work in progress as I add to it.
15 July 2014 at 23:03 #157959
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Pete,

You have preumably seen the lathes.co.uk pages, but you might like to look at the Toyo Cameras … which is what Mr Sakai originally designed it for.

I look forward to seeing what you make of it, and what you make with it.

MichaelG.
16 July 2014 at 19:46 #158037
Pete Gilbert 1
Participant
@petegilbert1
Yes indeed Michael. Thanx for reminding me though.

They made 'proper' large format cameras for expert photographers. And then decided to make their own mini lathes for in house use, eventually selling them to the public too. They made a mini stand drill previous to that. And I think I read somewhere, they are now also a mainstream automotive component maker, making oil pumps. The history of this little machine was one of the main aspects that prompted me to jump in and "Buy It Now"! Even though I could have had what appears to be higher spec and a brand new Draper micro lathe for a similar price. I was also convinced by seeing quite a few complimentary posts about the quality ML1 on various forums too.

I'll confess that I didn't realize just how many decades ago this little lathe was made, 1974 to 1980 no less. But it's quality shines through. It's completely usable, everything works, ( longitudinal slide is slightly stiff).

But I shall be stripping it down shortly to give everything a once over and some TLC and oil.

Edited By Pete Gilbert 1 on 16/07/2014 19:50:28
16 July 2014 at 20:39 #158040
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by Pete Gilbert 1 on 16/07/2014 19:46:58:

The history of this little machine was one of the main aspects that prompted me to jump in and "Buy It Now"! Even though I could have had what appears to be higher spec and a brand new Draper micro lathe for a similar price.

.

Pete,

A very wise choice, in my opinion.

I managed to get a Pultra 1770 but, until then, the Toyo ML1 was the other one high on my wish-list.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 16/07/2014 20:40:31
16 July 2014 at 21:38 #158051
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
For anyone interested in following Pete's adventure …

here, for background, are a few manuals for the Toyo Cameras.

MichaelG.
16 July 2014 at 22:20 #158056
Windy
Participant
@windy30762
Hello Peter I recognize the lathe it was one I had a few months ago until someone bought it off me it seems to put on EBay.

They are good but too small for my projects I started making some Zeroing hand wheels but never stamped them or finally finished them that is how I recognized it.

They are very handy a bit like on the super 7.

Have you found the small backlash eliminator for the crosslide.

If you can rig up a power feed for the carriage it would be very useful.

Hope you get plenty of pleasure from it.

Paul
17 July 2014 at 18:53 #158108
Pete Gilbert 1
Participant
@petegilbert1
Thanx for the input guys!

Windy, well would you Adam and Eve it! It's a small world. No . . wait . . It's a small lathe!

And it's my first 'home' machine.

All I can say Mr Wind sir is, this machine must have been your baby, because the condition is excellent for something made pre-1980. I had much pleasure when I took it out of the box ,plugged it in and cut metal!

Ah, I have to confess that I decided to 'test' it's metal, so to speak, and took some 1mm cuts in a brass bar at 1000rpm and managed to trip my domestic breaker!

Hahahahah! I had to laugh after I realized what had happened. I didn't break the lathe, I broke the house!

We have three Hardinge manual lathes at work. Two have rotating tool turrets and then there's the "village bike", as we call it, for general bits and bobs.

I intend to bring the Toyo up just a little from it's current capabilities. The compound slide is the first bit, and a power feed would be nice too, (much better finishes with that than I can achieve manually). So we'll see how it comes along.

Thanx for keeping this Toyo in such nice condition Paul. I will check out that backlash eliminator.
26 January 2015 at 03:01 #177324
elixir oliver
Participant
@elixiroliver19449
G'day,

I just recently become a proud owner of Toyo Sakai ML-1. The lathe cosmetically comes with quite a bit of surface rust on the lathe bed. It is running properly. I can't wait to use it, but it comes without a toolpost and two wheel that need helicoil or rethreading.

As this is my first lathe, my limited understanding is trying to get original spareparts. But after reading this post, it seems I could use toolpost from other lathe.

I am welcome to any suggestion for any available toolpost model that would fit.

And perhaps about doing the helicoil on the turning wheel such as the size and measurement or whether it is important to set it on 0 (zero).

Again, my machining skill is almost zero no pun intended, and perhaps starting on the wrong foot on getting this lathe as the first one. but mate, I just can't resist it.

Thanks!
26 January 2015 at 10:52 #177346
elixir oliver
Participant
@elixiroliver19449
Lathe bed rust is similar to the rust on the chuck from the photo above. It doesn't look too bad because of the lighting. The rust on the body itself has gone through the paintworks. I'm thinking of just cleaning it up with WD-40 and 0000 steelwool. any suggestion? I was afraid that it will affect the accuracy if I use steelwool on the lathe bed.

Both of he the handwheel for the carriage has no threading. As shown on picture one of the wheel is placed on the carriage.

I am also wondering what sort of Chuck key I could use, since it is also missing.

Apart from that, it runs quite silent and smooth.
27 January 2015 at 09:27 #177435
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
If you are worried about the steel wool being a bit fierce, try a Scotch Bright, pot scrubber, with either WD-40, or kerosene/paraffin.

Ian S C

Edited By Ian S C on 27/01/2015 09:28:39
27 January 2015 at 10:15 #177444
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by Ian S C on 27/01/2015 09:27:51:

If you are worried about the steel wool being a bit fierce, try a Scotch Bright, pot scrubber, with either WD-40, or kerosene/paraffin.

.

Just a word of warning …

Some of the ScotchBrite pads are very agressive … the fibres have Aluminium Oxide abrasive grit bonded onto them

… Before using on anything important; try rubbing one crosswise on some "brushed" Stainles Steel.

MichaelG.
27 January 2015 at 12:30 #177459
Pete Gilbert 1
Participant
@petegilbert1
I think 0000 grade steel wool should be ok. You can add oil to it to reduce it's effectiveness, even engine oil. We use it at work for deburring and polishing precision aluminium parts, so there's no need to worry about your steel bed guides. In fact the steel in the wire wool is probably the same hardness as the steel you're going to clean, so it shouldn't really be able to affect it.

All genuine Scotch Brite, also used at my workplace, has alminium oxide as it's abrasive and only the industrial graded white coloured one is graded as being the same as 0000 wire wool. All scouring pads let go of their abrasive during use, but cheap scouring pads are unregulated and shed their abrasive onto your workpiece rapidly. So you MUST clean off all that grit before you even think of reassembilng your lathe.

Edited By Pete Gilbert 1 on 27/01/2015 12:31:47
27 January 2015 at 13:35 #177469
Pete Gilbert 1
Participant
@petegilbert1
Posted by elixir oliver on 26/01/2015 10:52:12:

Both of he the handwheel for the carriage has no threading. As shown on picture one of the wheel is placed on the carriage.

I am also wondering what sort of Chuck key I could use, since it is also missing.

Apart from that, it runs quite silent and smooth.

Curse you for saying it's quite silent! Mine isn't.

I have two chuck keys and although they look different they both seem to work the main chuck and the drill chuck ok.

The handwheels have no M6 internal thread?

In that case I would bore them out to around 9 or 10mm, reduce the face that touches the carriage by 2mm and make up a top hat sleeve with a 2mm brim plus M6 internal and press them into the 9/10mm bore, with the 2mm brim replacing the material that was removed.

If you don't currently have access to another lathe, I'd be happy to make 'em for you. We have a small hand press at work, so I can make them a friction fit and press them in. Problem solved mate.

Drop me a PM if you need to.
28 January 2015 at 04:21 #177547
elixir oliver
Participant
@elixiroliver19449
Hi, it's seems to be quite alive here. I appreciate the responses, and a bit of a crowd

@ Ian and Michael.

Thank you for you suggestion. I guess I'm going to mix a fair bit of everything. Scotch Brite and Steel wool with WD 40. For other part I guess I would need just the good old toothbrush and kerosene.

@ Pete

Fair point on the Industrial grade Scotch Brite being similar to 0000, otherwise our Teflon cookware won't even last a year .

Don't get too jealous on my lathe, I haven't run it properly yet. I could see the sparkling shine on your lathe paintwork and the chuck and all. Almost dentist like Good work.

Thank you for your offer, I might need that. I'm just starting out, so half of your description still new to me. When I got to clean it a little I will let you know. I think one of the handwheel has been bore out previously, and bloody off centre too! No, it hasn't got any threading. Just gaping hole.

On the tailstock, I have got a drill chuck, and most likely is aftermarket brand and the key is pretty small. I'm not sure originally (like yours) comes with live center or dead center.

Anyway, will have day off tomorow and have a go at it. I will keep udating as I go.

Cheers!
28 January 2015 at 08:29 #177559
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by elixir oliver on 28/01/2015 04:21:05:

I guess I'm going to mix a fair bit of everything. Scotch Brite and Steel wool with WD 40. For other part I guess I would need just the good old toothbrush and kerosene.

.

To your list of materils; may I suggest adding Autosol [previously known as Solvol Autosol]

The MSDS is not particularly helpful regarding its ingredients, but it works well with [worn] Scotch Brite and with Steel wool.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 28/01/2015 08:30:53
28 January 2015 at 08:45 #177561
elixir oliver
Participant
@elixiroliver19449
@ michael

I did a little cleaning up just with rag and WD-40 since I can't find my steel wool. .

Turns out the rust isn't that bad at all. I reckon with a bit of regular use, it will cleans itself a bit. It seems ok now, I think I just focus on getting the mechanical parts. So, gentleman, I change my mind. But I will get on with cleaning soon after, since Pete got an awfully good looking machine. However, Autosol is great stuff. Use that a lot on my motorbike before.

Will head to hardware store to get some more supplies, as for now I only have plenty of elbow grease.
28 January 2015 at 08:58 #177563
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by elixir oliver on 28/01/2015 08:45:13:

Turns out the rust isn't that bad at all.

.

Great News

MichaelG.
28 January 2015 at 09:18 #177570
Pete Gilbert 1
Participant
@petegilbert1
Good to hear that Oliver. The lack of density of the rust probably indicates that it wasn't in damp conditions for too long and, obviously the good quality of the metal.

The paint on the ML1 seems to be like a Hammerite finish. So any rust that appears to show through is probably just due to the 'spots' that occur as the paint dries.

Both my chuck keys have 12 teeth, a 15mm diameter and a just under 4mm dia pilot (nose). They do look quite different, but both work in the lathe chuck. I'm guessing that the one on the left is the original. I can't imagine that Toyo Sakai would not have followed standard available specs for this sort of thing.
28 January 2015 at 11:05 #177583
elixir oliver
Participant
@elixiroliver19449
@ Pete

You seems to be right. It is actually pretty good still. Considering it has been round about 30 years.

Thanks for the chuck key photo, and counting the tooth That would make it easier for me to find it.

The handwheel is a bit of an issue, hence the fun.

The one on the left is the one without threading. As you can see, it is drilled off center. I could understand that perhaps the previous owner can't find the center when drilling, and perhaps he shouldn't use a drill.

It seems the new hole is drilled from front and back, and it doesn't meet. On the picture 4, the close up shows where the two holes meet. They seems to be drilled different size too, the hole from the back it's 8.95mm, and from the front is 8.33mm. What is your suggestion? Still able to be saved?

I am wondering if the numbers on the handwhe iel is important at all to be line up or where it should start, but I guess getting the wheel attached to the carrier is more important now.

Ta'
28 January 2015 at 11:52 #177586
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by elixir oliver on 28/01/2015 11:05:18:

… It seems the new hole is drilled from front and back, and it doesn't meet. On the picture 4, the close up shows where the two holes meet. They seems to be drilled different size too, the hole from the back it's 8.95mm, and from the front is 8.33mm. What is your suggestion? Still able to be saved?

.

[that was addressed to Pete, so I hope you don't mind me jumping-in]

Take it steady, and this should be a reasonably simple repair.

First thing is to bore the hole out to some reasonable size.

[Centre it by refererence to the outside diameter of the wheel]

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 28/01/2015 11:54:20
28 January 2015 at 12:08 #177587
elixir oliver
Participant
@elixiroliver19449
No worries Mike,

Of course I don't mind, it was kind of address to anyone can give advice. I am really just a rookie here.

Perhaps I should remove the @ someone in the next message. It's an open forum anyway .

btw, I'm quite impressed Pete was mentioning boring it out to 9mm – 10mm. Well, that goes to experience.

Mike, or Pete. Do you suggest I bore that with a lathe? I supposed anyone with a big enough chuck could do it.

Cheers
28 January 2015 at 12:56 #177589
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by elixir oliver on 28/01/2015 12:08:14:

Do you suggest I bore that with a lathe? I supposed anyone with a big enough chuck could do it.

.

Yes, bore it in the lathe

The Toyo should be adequate if you can mount a suitably sized block of wood or plastic [do you have a faceplate for it?]

… Just bore a recess in the block and push the handwheel into it.

MichaelG.

.

P.S. … No offence taken, but I do prefer to be called Michael.
29 January 2015 at 12:37 #177678
elixir oliver
Participant
@elixiroliver19449
Michael sounds better actually. My apology .

That was a good idea. However, I haven't got a toolpost . I'll have to find a machinist somewhere here.

Now I wonder why you would want two lathe

By the way, I'm in Australia.

I tried to take out the drill chuck today, wedge a piece of timber behind the chuck and whack it with a mallet (By the way, is that the right way of removing the chuck?). The tailstock spindle slides out, so I just spin the rest of the barrel out. Now the chuck is still attached to the spindle.
29 January 2015 at 14:11 #177687
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by elixir oliver on 29/01/2015 12:37:11:

I tried to take out the drill chuck today, wedge a piece of timber behind the chuck and whack it with a mallet (By the way, is that the right way of removing the chuck?). The tailstock spindle slides out, so I just spin the rest of the barrel out. Now the chuck is still attached to the spindle.

No promises, but: That looks rather like it might be a "self-ejecting" barrel.

Try putting it back together and winding the barrel back … it may eject the drill chuck.

… If that doesn't work before it all starts to feel wrong, stop, and we'll think again.

MichaelG.
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