Boxford lathe thread dial indicator

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Boxford lathe thread dial indicator

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  • #621993
    Peter Simpson 3
    Participant
      @petersimpson3

      My Boxford lathe has a screw cutting gear box but does not have a thread dial indicator. These indicators look to be as rare as hen's teeth and rather expensive. Looking at photos of the indicator the only issue I would have in making an indicator would be machining the gear wheel that engages with the lathe lead screw. Could anybody give me some tips as where to start and what equipment would be required to produce a suitable gear wheel.

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      #11366
      Peter Simpson 3
      Participant
        @petersimpson3
        #621996
        Clive Brown 1
        Participant
          @clivebrown1

          Mine has 32 teeth and the OD is 1 7/16" x 1/2" wide, as near as I can measure with a ruler and my head upside down.

          The teeth are angled to match the screw helix angle, with a concave profile to wrap around the screw. However, I suspect that the tooth form is not very critical

          Edited By Clive Brown 1 on 21/11/2022 10:19:06

          #621998
          Peter Simpson 3
          Participant
            @petersimpson3

            Thanks Clive that's a good start.

            #621999
            SillyOldDuffer
            Moderator
              @sillyoldduffer
              Posted by Peter Simpson 3 on 21/11/2022 10:04:40:

              My Boxford lathe has a screw cutting gear box but does not have a thread dial indicator. These indicators look to be as rare as hen's teeth and rather expensive. Looking at photos of the indicator the only issue I would have in making an indicator would be machining the gear wheel that engages with the lathe lead screw. Could anybody give me some tips as where to start and what equipment would be required to produce a suitable gear wheel.

              Is it a metric lathe? Thread Dial Indicators match well to turn per inch thread systems, but not to pitch thread system like metric. For that reason metric lathes don't always come with a TDI. Instead, the cutter is reversed out without disengaging the half-nut, and the cutter never loses sync with previous cuts. The same system works on Imperial lathes.

              The advantage of a TDI is speed, because, after a cut, the half nuts can be disengaged so the carriage can be manually reversed as fast as the operator can manage. Then there's a delay while he waits for the TDI to align, at which point he engages the half-nuts for the next cut. It can go wrong, misreading the TDI or by catching the half-nut slightly early or late. I'm not sure the metric method is that much slower in practice, but it depends on the thread being cut.

              The first problem cutting a gear, is deciding how many teeth are needed! This depends on the lead-screw pitch.

              After that, the gear need not be particularly wonderful : just 'good enough' to engage without damaging the lead-screw. Not much power is absorbed turning a dial, so the teeth just have to fit well enough to turn it. They're usually made of brass, but I think aluminium or plastic would be adequate.

              Easiest way is to buy one! Next easiest is a 3D printer. After that, I'm a fan of rack cutting, which is described here. This example was made by Neil:

              The cutter is made by turning a thread of the required pitch, and then grooving it to provide cutting edges and reliefs. This image from Jason shows the how the gear teeth are developed, several teeth each pass, and they are involutes.

              Dave

              #622000
              Hopper
              Participant
                @hopper

                Indeed, the tooth form is not critical. It is not transmitting power etc so there is basically no load on it other than to rotate the spindle of the indicator. If you have the set up to do gear cutting, you should try to angle the gear teeth to match the helix angle of the thread on the lead screw. Otherwise, you can cut a disc of brass about 1/8" thick or even less and mark out and carefully file the teeth on it.

                #622003
                Bazyle
                Participant
                  @bazyle

                  It can be even simpler than that. First understand the principles behind it and what it is doing and realise itis just an indicator that requires no physical strength. Then you should be able to understand that you can make one by cutting a piece of cardboard to have 'teeth' and pencil in the divisions around the top, rotating on a drawing pin.
                  The luxury version is made of plastic sheet!
                  More seriously there is a design on Thingiverse for 3D printing. Well done ACE3DJ for providing that as it even includes metric. If you are having to ask someone to do the printing you could just ask for the gears and make the rest out of wood/plastic/whatever.

                  #622005
                  Nigel McBurney 1
                  Participant
                    @nigelmcburney1

                    the thin brass method is ok tfor the gear the teeth do not need to be of a gear form,nor be helical, a series of pointed pins would work . thats ok for imperial leadscrews, now if its a metric leadscrew ,its a bit different ,from my experience with an all metric Colchester triumph 71/2 in centre height. this lathe has a set of pick off gearwheels for the thread indicator,there were either 4 or 5 gears cant remember the exact number, each gear could only work on certain pitches so to cover a full range of metric pitches a series of gears was required. the actual gears were thin brass about 3 or 4 mm thick looked a bit frail on such a large lathe but they work well as there is no load ,only a small amout of friction to be overcome.

                    #622006
                    Peter Simpson 3
                    Participant
                      @petersimpson3

                      Bazyle I found that item by ACE3DJ whilst searching the net. I have no idea when it comes to 3D printing but a friend has one. He said that I would require and "STI file" Is that file included on the web site ?

                      #622007
                      Peter Simpson 3
                      Participant
                        @petersimpson3

                        The lathe is imperial with an 8 TPI lead screw.

                        #622009
                        ChrisLH
                        Participant
                          @chrislh

                          Myford 7 leadscrews are 8 tpi and 0.750 OD. If your leadscrew is the same OD a spare Myford tdi gear may suit ?

                          #622011
                          Clive Brown 1
                          Participant
                            @clivebrown1

                            The Boxford leadscrew has a 3/16" wide keyway along its length. the gearwheel needs to be sufficiently wide to comfortably bridge that.

                            #622012
                            Hopper
                            Participant
                              @hopper

                              The Myford uses a 16 tooth gear on its 8tpi leadscrew, which wold be easier to make than a 32.

                              Edit: But maybe the 32 will not catch on that slot as it goes round.

                              Edited By Hopper on 21/11/2022 11:45:47

                              #622014
                              mgnbuk
                              Participant
                                @mgnbuk

                                He said that I would require and "STI file" Is that file included on the web site ?

                                If you go to the tab on the Thingiverse page called "Thing Files" the STL files for the various components can be found there. The particular variations you required can be download for import to the 3D printer "slicer" software to be printed.

                                I have printed a few Myford related parts from Thingiverse & all have worked as described, so I would not expect that your friend would have any problems..

                                Nigel B.

                                #622030
                                Alan Johnson 7
                                Participant
                                  @alanjohnson7

                                  Boxford is a South Bend clone.

                                  There was a Popular Mechanics article to build a thread dial indicator. It was in the May 1952 edition. pdf page 208. You can download a copy for free from:

                                  https://archive.org/details/PopularMechanics1952/Popular_Mechanics_01_1952/

                                  I made one! It was easy!

                                  Australian Metal Working Hobbyist sell the worm gear. It has 32 teeth.

                                  https://australianmetalworkinghobbyist.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=666&search=thread+dial

                                  Regards,

                                  Alan.

                                  #622035
                                  Peter Simpson 3
                                  Participant
                                    @petersimpson3

                                    What a brilliant font of knowledge this site is. Many thanks for all the info. I printed out that Popular Mechanics article. It came out one before I was born !

                                    #622036
                                    Mike Poole
                                    Participant
                                      @mikepoole82104

                                      The adverts in that edition of PM are hilarious, love the Charles Atlas one, are engineers perceived as skinny wimps?

                                      Mike

                                      #622040
                                      duncan webster 1
                                      Participant
                                        @duncanwebster1

                                        It's not only the tpi that matters, the lead screw diameter matters as well, bigger screw has smaller helix angle so myford might not work

                                        #622082
                                        Grizzly bear
                                        Participant
                                          @grizzlybear

                                          The first one I made for a ML7 was fabricated out of a steel washer, teeth cut with a hacksaw.

                                          It worked fine.

                                          #622143
                                          Hopper
                                          Participant
                                            @hopper
                                            Posted by Alan Johnson 7 on 21/11/2022 12:36:20:

                                            Boxford is a South Bend clone.

                                            There was a Popular Mechanics article to build a thread dial indicator. It was in the May 1952 edition. pdf page 208. You can download a copy for free from:

                                            https://archive.org/details/PopularMechanics1952/Popular_Mechanics_01_1952/

                                            I made one! It was easy!

                                            Australian Metal Working Hobbyist sell the worm gear. It has 32 teeth.

                                            https://australianmetalworkinghobbyist.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=666&search=thread+dial

                                            Regards,

                                            Alan.

                                            Their picture of the gear looks like it is not a true worm gear but a much easier to make straight-cut helical gear, so quite do-able, if you have a dividing head. LINK

                                            #622147
                                            Paul Lousick
                                            Participant
                                              @paullousick59116

                                              The Australian metalworking hobbyis also has a complete indicator for sale.

                                              **LINK**

                                              thread chasing.jpg

                                              #622148
                                              Alan Charleston
                                              Participant
                                                @alancharleston78882

                                                Hi,

                                                I made a TDI for my Boxford about 10 years ago. Here is a picture of it.

                                                tdi3.jpg

                                                tdi5.jpg

                                                It was only supposed to be a prototype so I made it from PVC. It worked so well however that I have used it ever since. I didn't know what the correct gear form should be, so I actually made the 16 tooth gear using a module 1 gear cutter. The OD of it is 17.8 mm which was chosen to mesh correctly with the lead screw and is in fact pretty close to the 18.0 mm required for a module 1 gear. As the gear was also made from PVC, I wasn't worried about damaging the lead screw with an incorrect gear profile. The indicator works well.

                                                When I made it I started to do a set of drawings for it but never finished them. This is a far as I got.

                                                tdi4.jpg

                                                As you can see, rather than angling the teeth on the gear to follow the lead screw thread, I angled the supporting shaft.

                                                Here it is on the lathe.

                                                tdi2.jpg

                                                If there is any interest, I can finish the drawings and post them here.

                                                Thanks to Dave I now know how to cut a gear with the correct profile so, although the current set up works OK I'll probably cut a new gear for it.

                                                Regards,

                                                Alan C.

                                                #622225
                                                Grizzly bear
                                                Participant
                                                  @grizzlybear

                                                  I like that, Alan.

                                                  Ingenuity unlimited!

                                                  Bear….

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