The additional bits&bobs will be the same for any of the three machines you listed, so you might as well get the biggest machine you can afford and have space for.

Whatever work you do, you'll always run into jobs that would benefit from a bigger machine, and will have some that can only be done on a bigger lathe.

Having a more powerful motor makes for better productivity – cranking handles shaving off bits of metal for dozens of passes gets old really quickly, when more power could do the same job in two or three passes.

Power cross feed is similarly useful especially for large diameters. And it makes parting off much less fraught.

Inverters give better and more reliable speed control than the simpler DC motors.

So buy the 250.

Hi Chris, and Welcome.

Whereabouts are you located?

If you can, find a local Model Engineering Club and Join. You will enjoy the company and learn a lot just by listening ton the conversations.

With regard to "What Lathe", your choice depends on a variety of factors. Which ones are known only to you.

How much space do you have for it? Having a congested workshop, take it from me that extra space is always useful.

What do you plant to make eventually?

You can do small work on a big lathe, but the reverse can be difficult.

So, if in doubt, go for one a bit larger than you first though.

With regard to lathe features.

Varieble speed drive is useful, but not obligatory. A very useful "Nice to Have"

Almost any lathe capable of screwcutting will provide a power feed for sliding.

Power cross feed tends tom feature on larger machines. Having changed from Myford ML7 , (I found the 2 MT Headstock bore very restrictive – Cue howls of protest from Myford users )with a single phase motor to a larger lathe with VFD and PCF, they are marvelousn features to have..

If you want PCF, have you considered the Sieg SC4? It has variable speed drive and VFD. It is offered by Arc Euro Trade and Axminster. The price difference is caused by the difference in warranty ans accessories supplied with the machine.

Power feeds don't remove the need to learn how to provide a steady feed by hand.

I am good at spending other people's money. You don't have to completely fit out a workshop from the start, but some kit soon becomes essential.

You will need measuring equipment, and very probably, a bench grinder.

At some stage you will find a need for a 4 jaw chuck (£ jaw chucks are self centering, but do not hold work absolutely concentric. For that you do need to centre in a 4 jaw independent, and need at least one Dial Test Indicator (Clock) and a magnetic base Then you can set work with as little run out as you wish. And of course you can hold square or irregularly shaped work to machine it.

And of course, it enables you to deliberately machine work eccentric for some jobs.

It is a very good idea to "learn your trade" by making small tools. You can make mistakes more cheaply on a bit of mild steel bar than on a casting from a kit.

One of the first tools that I would advocate, is a Centre Height Gauge. It saves a lot of time mounting a tool on Centre Height. Imperative if it is to cut properly,

You will receive differing advice on what tools to buy and use. Some will advocate HSS or a Tangential Turning Tool, (All of which can be ground to resharpen. Another trick to learn! ) Others will advocate carbide tips, either brazed or replaceable.

All have their pros and cons. Some of us use a mixture to sut what we are doing.

I have found brazed carbide tips VERY easy to chip, so avoid them (that might be me being clumsy

Carbide needs to run at high speed to work well (The normal moulded types are not REALLY sharp, the ground ones are better) Carbide relies on a lot of heat being generated at the cutting edge to soften the metal.

For maching hardened steel or chilled cast iron they are vital HSS literally won't cut it.

HSS can be ground at home, and you don't suffer the frustration of chipping the last carbide tip at 8 pm on a Saturday night. Yoiu get get boutb the bench grinder and resharpen the HSS tool!

Some of use love Tangential Turning Tools. Thes use a HSS toolbit. My first toolbit lasted form about 4 nyears w before becoming too short for hold for regrinding. For the price of one replaceable carbide iti you can buy a short HSS toolbit.But you have to do the sharpening. It is more forgiving, but won't shift metal as fast as Carbide.

You pays your money and makes your choice.

What do I use|?

For most turning / facing: a Tangential Turning Tool. (Needs a simple jig for grinding and definitely needs a Centre Height Gauge for setting the toolbit )

For roughing: a replaceable Carbide tip

Form Boring: , a replaceable Carbide tip.

So a foot in both camps.

HTH

Howard

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Edited By Howard Lewis on 05/08/2022 22:28:05

I have had a WM 250 with MorseCone 3/20mm bore spindle/sold it and do not miss it.

My present WM250 with Morsecone 4/28mm bore is the one the one to put on top of my grave.

It will miss me.

The first was sold because parting off was marginal at best and the present does it for breakfast.

The last picture shows how it can do ugly things to a piece of oxy -acetylen cut steel of lousy breed.

(order of Photos and text is not easy to handle)

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 06/08/2022 06:58:16

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 06/08/2022 06:59:04

Warco did not attend the last Midlands Exhibition so don't expect them to be at this years. Their showroom is in Chiddingfold, Surrey if that's near you. You may be able to see similar machines (different colour) at some of the other dealer locations.

John

QCTPs are a bit like Marmite, not everyone loves them! I'm not convinced and – so far – have stuck with a 4-way. I've a suspicion beginners often spend money on QCTPs they don't need and their dosh would have been better spent on something else! QCTP are good if the work being done on the lathe uses HSS rather than carbide inserts AND involves lots of rapid tool changes. Six to eight cartridges are needed to maintain momentum, which pushes the price up. But will you need to maintain momentum in your workshop – are you a gentleman hobbyist or a Victorian piece-rate worker? And if you prefer Carbide inserts to HSS, they don't need a QCTP because the tool height isn't disturbed for resharpening. Plus it's easy to provide insert holders with shims pre-selected for height making them almost as quick to swap as a QCTP.

Apart from the cost disadvantage, QCTP are also less rigid than other tool-posts. It might matter.

Micrometer: most hobby work is done to about 1 thou / 0.02mm, so I use a digital caliper most of the time and only get a 0.01mm micrometer out on special occasions. Working more accurately than 0.01mm is a mare's nest of complexity, and is rarely required because most hobby work is done by fitting, not by measurement. For example drilling a hole and then turning a shaft to fit.  The fit could be anything between slack and a tight press-fit and using the parts as gauges eliminates the need for accurate measurement. In my workshop a 0.001mm micrometer would be a waste of money, particularly as I would have to calibrate it. Personal opinion, but I think believing in an uncalibrated tenths micrometer is a form of self-delusion! 'About a thou' is realistic.

Fitting works extremely well for most hobby purposes: it only fails as a system when large numbers of interchangeable parts have to be made. We rarely do that and in some types of work a certain amount of slop is positively helpful. Modelling horizontal engines is an example.

Deals at exhibitions? Worth asking, but don't expect much. Times have changed. Because of the high cost of attending, several vendors no longer go, and if they do it's to show off a small selection of kit. I suspect it's easier for them to take orders and supply from base than to transfer an unboxed lathe into a customers car.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 06/08/2022 11:10:32

A digital calliper will suffice for measurements upto 6" / 150 mm in most cases.

Some of the cheapies consume batteries keeping their memory alive when switched off.

My very old LIDL one does not seem to be of that breed, fortunately, but it does now show signs of old age!.

The better ones show zero current drain when switched off.

Some time ago, MEW reviewed digital callipers from the cheapest to a Mitutoyo at about £80.

Almost indistinguishable from it was a £24 Moore and Wright from Machine DRO

When you get a 4 jaw independent chuck, you will need a Magnetic Base and at least one Dial Test Indicator, (either plunger or "finger" type ). I have both, but use the finger clock most of the time.The plunger clock is useful when setting up the lathe, and aligning the Tailstock.

A finger clock is useful for aligning a part with bored hole as the important datum.

You do not need a fully equipped workshop, prepared form any eventuality.

You can start off with the minimum of basic equipment, and add items as you find a need for them.

(ie. You may not find a need for a Vernier, or Digital Height Gauge and a Surface Plate, for a very long time, so spend that money on something which you will use frequently. )

Whatever machine you buy, what is important is the after sales support, if there is a problem.

Prices will vary for very similar machine, depending on the accessories "bundled" with the machine, or the length of warranty, so check carefully that you get what you require, and that technical assistance will be there should you require it.

Some importers are excellent and will support with advice, spares or even exchange for a new machine.

Others will take a long time to answer your query, if at all.

I am a 4 way toolpoist fan. I have both a front and home made rear one, so six tools available, in about the same time as changing a QCT

Additional carriers for QCTs cost, and need space to store (Which I lack, so make a virtue of a necessity! )

But this is purely my opinion! Others will disagree..

HTH

Howard.

I would indeed start with the 4-way tool-post. 2screws for each tool is plenty to keep it firmly in place. If the top-slide is similar to the one on my old WM250 then fitting a QCTP isn't always straightforward. See *** Fitting QCTP *** two pages.

John

A four-way toolpost has slots for four tools, but you can very rarely actually use all four slots, since some tools need to be arranged pointing in conflicting directions (this is hard to describe but becomes all too apparent when you try to load the selection you want). The tools not in use are also perfectly positioned to take a chunk out of your hand if you brush against them while trying to set something up in the chuck.

Personally I would give a QCTP high priority amongst 'non-absolutely essential' accessories, they make life so much easier and you don't have to buy all the holders at once – some suppliers give free carriage for orders above a certain value, so adding an extra holder can take you into the free category allowing you to convince yourself that with its purchase you are actually saving money.

One of the things that the smaller Warco lathes share is a flange-fixing chuck. You have to go up a size or two (and about a 50% price jump) to get a D1-4 spindle nose. I went from a screwed-nose Myford to a D1-4-equipped machine and I have always wondered how easy or otherwise it is to swap chucks with the flange fitting. I appreciate that cost is a major driver but I always look a model or two up to see what I'm missing when buying something so at least I do it with my eyes open. I don't see this point discussed much – is it an issue in practice?

Must admit for me the QCTP argument was over years ago – one of the first things I made under the direction of the student workshop technician (thanks, Ifor!) was a QCTP compatible with the Tripan on his Smart and Brown lathe. I used it for years on my S7 before buying an old English lathe which came with the next size up Tripan and finding that my home-made tool holders fitted.

Briefly, yes. Lathes like the Myford and some of the Boxford machines use a threaded nose spindle and the chucks (if made with the appropriate thread in them) or a chuck on a backplate just screws on. Makes running the lathe in reverse problematic, although I never found this a big problem. Bigger lathes often use the Camlock fitting like my D1-4 size, where there are three cams which are turned with a chuck key to lock the chuck on. Quick and easy. And in the middle there are the flange-fitting type. I often swap between chuck and collets as my lathe takes these directly in the spindle nose so the Camlock is convenient but if 99% of your work will be with the 3-jaw then it's clearly not very relevant.