Using kerosene to clean ground surfaces

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Using kerosene to clean ground surfaces

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  • #591323
    choochoo_baloo
    Participant
      @choochoo_baloo

      After an unexpected workshop hiatus, my lathe centres/QC tool holders/a few new drill shanks (in other words ground surfaces) collected some detritus & a little grime.

      I plan to give them a brush with some kerosene then dry the excess with a clean rag.

      • Does kerosene leave a thin film, so serving as a rust inhibitor?
      • Is it OK to leave this film on mating surfaces ie on a QCTP tool post, in operation ie does it affect the accuracy?

      Thanks in advance.

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      #11158
      choochoo_baloo
      Participant
        @choochoo_baloo
        #591324
        Jon Lawes
        Participant
          @jonlawes51698

          I suspect there will be no difference to the accuracy, but it will make your working environment smelly and is not something you want over your hands any length of time. I believe its a bit of an old school thing in the states to wipe your tools over with it, but there are far nicer, less smelly and less toxic things you could be using.

          If a film of kero is affecting accuracy then you are working to a much finer tolerance than I!

          #591325
          MikeK
          Participant
            @mikek40713

            Kerosene doesn't really evaporate. So, like Jon said, it'll stink…and for a long time. What about using acetone and then wiping on & off a little oil?

            #591328
            Hopper
            Participant
              @hopper

              Spray with WD40 and wipe off with a rag. Cleans and protects as it contains a solvent and a lubricant. And smells better than kero.

              #591341
              Thor 🇳🇴
              Participant
                @thor

                Kerosene will work but doesn't smell very nice and isn't good for your health. Wipe it off and apply a thine fim of oil.

                Thor

                #591343
                Kiwi Bloke
                Participant
                  @kiwibloke62605

                  Paraffin/kerosene will evaporate, eventually, but, of course, whatever was dissolved in it may not. Therefore, there may be a residue left. Either immerse small items in a pot of the stuff, or use masses of the stuff, and wash off the crud with it, or – much preferred – clean with as little paraffin as possible, then wipe down with clean paper or rags, with more clean paraffin, if needed. It has no lasting anti-corrosion or accuracy-destroying property, and the smell will go in a day or so. If you're flush, you could buy odour-free lamp oil, which is a bit more refined (in both senses…). I don't think a workshop smells right without a whiff of paraffin…

                  Paraffin is a good solvent cleaning agent (for thos things that it dissolves, naturally, including oils, greases, waxes and other hydrocarbons). It's unlikely to damage paint finishes (unlike acetone, for example), and its lower volatility than petrol/gasoline means that it's safer, but also it hangs around so you can remove it along with the dissolved crud. Volatile solvents just dissolve the crud, then flash off, leaving the crud thinly smeared everywhere.

                  As Hopper and Thor suggest, follow up with something with anti-corrosion properties, or just use WD40, etc, if the amount required is small.

                  Edited By Kiwi Bloke on 24/03/2022 08:07:28

                  #591345
                  Ramon Wilson
                  Participant
                    @ramonwilson3

                    I've used kerosene with mineral oil added (about 90% kero) to clean and wipe down my lathe and mill for as long as I can remember – there's a bottle by the lathe right now. Personally I do not find the 'smell' offensive – hardly notice it and it certainly doesn't degrade into an offensive aroma. It's an ideal lubricant for lapping too. And a wipe over tools with some on a cloth doesn't leave them 'oily'. I should add I never have any issue with rust either.

                    BTW acetone – or any other similar lacquer solvent for that matter should be used with caution as it will attack any painted surfaces very quickly indeed.

                    It is far less 'toxic' in the atmosphere than WD 40 which can cause respiratory effects if used in a closed environment.

                    At my last place of work WD40 was used excessively on the lathe – it did not take long for the hot fumes to effect my lungs for sure – paraffin (kero) is far less noxious

                    Tug

                    Edited By Ramon Wilson on 24/03/2022 08:11:03

                    #591359
                    JA
                    Participant
                      @ja

                      Kerosene (paraffin) can absorb water and should not be used for cleaning anything that rusts. The Myford instruction booklet for their lathes contained that warning. There is a better alternative, white spirit. It is cleaner, very similar to paraffin and sold specificly for cleaning. It is also easier to buy than paraffin.

                      The absorbtion of water by kerosene has given very serious problems in aviation. The best known was at Heathrow when an airliner landed 50 yards short of the runway after both engines stopping due to ice blocking the engines' fuel system.

                      I am in the UK where paraffin and kerosene are the same. I am aware that they are not the same in some other countries.

                      JA

                      #591361
                      Nick Wheeler
                      Participant
                        @nickwheeler

                        Why not use something intended for the job?

                        An aerosol of brake or carb cleaner from your nearest motor factor, used with some workshop tissue will work efficiently. It will also get the cutting oil off your parts when you've finished machining them.

                        #591369
                        Mark Rand
                        Participant
                          @markrand96270

                          Kerosene/paraffin is composed almost entirely of alkanes. it is imiiscible with water, even though water droplets can be found in fuel tanks under some conditions.

                          I use it as a solvent when cleaning equipment. I will also dilute Jizer with it if I want some detergent action but not as much as the neat Jizet provides.

                          I find the smell no more objectionable than that of white spirit.

                          WD40 and british paraffin are kerosene with scents and (for WD40) a small quantity of poor quality oil. White spirit is effectively kerosene that has undorgone another stage of refinement.

                          Kerosene costs £0.60-£0.70/ litre at the pump (If you know shere to get it and have a Jerry can). White spirit and paraffin seem to go for £2/litre for no better product. WD40 goes for £5/litre.

                          No contest. Use kerosene. yes

                          #591371
                          noel shelley
                          Participant
                            @noelshelley55608

                            Brake and clutch cleaner is HIGHLY INFLAMABLE, DO NOT use in an enclosed space but ideal for starting small petrol engines, quick squirt and a little choke, even for 2 strokes. Noel.

                            #591373
                            SillyOldDuffer
                            Moderator
                              @sillyoldduffer

                              WD40 is better than paraffin/kerosene for Choo-choo's purpose.

                              It's a mixture of light and heavier oils, less smelly than heating oil, where the light oils (about 35%) quickly evaporate leaving a thin waxy layer behind. WD40 penetrates, dissolves old oil and grease, has moderate lubricating properties, displaces water, and provides temporary rust-proofing. All extremely useful, but I reckon they make WD40 the most misunderstood product on the market: it's not the best penetrating oil, lubricator, cleaner, water-displacer, or protective rust-proofer! If any of those are vital, use a specialist product. For wiping down, WD40 is great, but don't forget it cleans off the oil and grease that might be keeping rust at bay.

                              Dave

                              #591375
                              Hopper
                              Participant
                                @hopper

                                I actually use spray can degreaser from the car parts shop for all my workshop degreasing. But I do it outside which may be more viable in the tropics than UK in January etc. Then WD40 sprayed to prevent rust. But lately since WD40 is now about $14 or 7 Quid a can, I have gone back to the traditional squirt of oil from the oil can and wipe with a clean rag after said degreasing. I think it actually works better.

                                #591392
                                John Doe 2
                                Participant
                                  @johndoe2

                                  I hope the OP doesn't mind if I ask a question on a slight tangent, since we have some knowledgeable folk responding.

                                  Does white spirit leave any residue after it has evaporated? i.e., can I use white spirit to completely clean a surface for painting or does it leave an oily residue – I have never been quite sure on this point.

                                  And how is methylated spirit chemically different from white spirit; and does it leave any residue? Meths is recommended as a cleaner before applying silicon sealant, but not sure if it is suitable to clean before applying paint?

                                   

                                  Thanks.

                                  Edited By John Doe 2 on 24/03/2022 11:13:17

                                  #591398
                                  John Haine
                                  Participant
                                    @johnhaine32865

                                    Meths is ethyl alcohol with a small amount of methyl to make it poisonous and some blue dye. White spirit is derived from oil and quite different.

                                    Edited By John Haine on 24/03/2022 11:29:02

                                    #591402
                                    Anonymous
                                      Posted by John Doe 2 on 24/03/2022 11:11:58:

                                      Does white spirit leave any residue after it has evaporated?

                                      I think it does, using Loctite on parts that have been "cleaned" with white spirits doesn't work.

                                      For removing superficial rust on tooling I use wire wool and a quick spray with WD40. For all other cleaning, tools and machined parts, I use acetone.

                                      Andrew

                                      #591418
                                      Bazyle
                                      Participant
                                        @bazyle

                                        I would think acetone is rather more difficult to get nowadays (in the uk). Although white spirit is more expensive than paraffin one should be using such small quantities that that is a minor consideration.
                                        I use it in quantities of half an eggcup at a time when cleaning say a chuck with a toothbrush only drying it off with a bit of industrial tissue. That then provides a damp tissue to start the cleaning on something else and eventually goes into a sealed jamjar for later use as a fire lighter. Then the remaining oily white spirit goes into another jar to be used as the first stage of cleaning something bigger/messier. A well used ie oily jar provides a fluid that I know will evaporate to leave a thin film of oil for minor protection when appropriate.

                                        Carb cleaner is a much stronger solvent and expensive which I only use if white spirit is not shifting the gunge, old oil or coolant stains. Sometimes on oily painted things, benches etc rather than tools i just use kitchen creme cleaner.

                                        #591428
                                        Tony Pratt 1
                                        Participant
                                          @tonypratt1

                                          To my mind White spirit & Paraffin always seem to leave a residue, & by the way RS still do Acetone, they sent me a litre by mistake when I ordered thread seal.

                                          Tony

                                          #591437
                                          Tim Stevens
                                          Participant
                                            @timstevens64731

                                            White spirit is a major constituent of many household paints and varnishes, as well as brush cleaners. It is used because (inter alia) it does indeed evaporate. But it does no go as quickly as petrol (gasoline) or alcohol. Patience is, I was told by my grandmother, a virtue, but I never stood around long enough to find out.

                                            Cheers, Tim

                                            #591438
                                            Tim Stevens
                                            Participant
                                              @timstevens64731

                                              PS there is another odd effect with cleaners which evaporate quickly – they cool as they evaporate. And if this is quickly enough, the cooling is significant. Enough, on a damp day in an English shed, to cause a film of water to settle, causing rusting.

                                              Tim

                                              #591441
                                              mgnbuk
                                              Participant
                                                @mgnbuk

                                                I would think acetone is rather more difficult to get nowadays (in the uk).

                                                Readily available on Ebay – around a fiver for 250ml delivered. Widely used as nail varnish remover, apparently.

                                                I use GT85 aerosol rather than WD40 for cleaning greasy grime from parts that require subsequent light corrosion protection, as it is frequently on offer in Aldi during cycling promotions.

                                                I bulk buy aerosol brake cleaner to clean parts where no residue is required – worked out at around £1.50 per 500ml tin for a case of 12 delivered last time I bought some. A quick look on Ebay suggests that prices have risen, but still possible to get 12 x 500ml tins for £21.50 delivered.

                                                Nigel B.

                                                #591444
                                                Anonymous

                                                  I buy my acetone 25 litres at a time from a glassfibre materials supplier, about £2.50p per litre.

                                                  Andrew

                                                  #591450
                                                  SillyOldDuffer
                                                  Moderator
                                                    @sillyoldduffer

                                                    Knowing a bit of chemistry might clear some fog.

                                                    The Paraffins were a family of chemicals containing only Hydrogen and Carbon in single chain molecules. In modern Chemical parlance, they are called Alkanes.

                                                    The chains can be very long, and although the chemistry of all the members is similar, as the weight of the molecules increases, they go from gases to solids, via vapours, light liquids, heavy liquids, greases, sticky goo and waxes.

                                                    The first 4 are all fuel gases, delivered as compressed liquids in cylinders.

                                                    The heaviest alkane listed by Wikipedia is Tetrapentacontane (C54H110), a solid which boils at just under 600°C. Might find it in Bitumen.

                                                    Heavy Alkanes dissolve in lighter Alkanes, so the lighter liquid mixtures are often used as solvents.

                                                    Petrol, Naptha, White Spirit, Paraffin, Jet Fuel and Heating Oils are all mixtures of nearby Alkanes, where each group is heavier than the one below.

                                                    Petrol contains, amongst other things, mostly very light easily vaporised alkanes like Octane. An excellent solvent, but best avoided because the fumes are poisonous and a serious explosion risk, easily ignited by a static spark.

                                                    White Spirit is a mixture of Alkanes between Nonane (9 carbon atoms) and Dodecane (12 carbon atoms). The members are still light Alkanes, but much less easily vaporised than petrol. White Spirit is safer! The heaviest member (Dodecane) boils at -9.6C, so White Spirit shouldn't leave much residue behind.

                                                    Paraffin (aka Kerosene) is some mixture of the 14 Alkanes between Hexane (6 carbon atoms) and Icosame (20 carbon atoms). Hexane is highly volatile, making paraffin easier to light, but otherwise Paraffin's Alkanes are heavy, making Paraffin unlikely to be an explosion hazard in normal circumstances. Jet Fuel and Heating Oil are heavy paraffins, a tad safer again.

                                                    As all three are imprecise mixtures, there's no reason to assume that two different brands or even batches from the same maker will be identical. Also, because of the way they're made, it's like as not that a proportion of heavier Alkanes will also be dissolved in the mix as well. Mixtures like White Spirit which are intended to be used as solvents should be much cleaner, but there's no reason for Fuel Oils to be particularly fussy – used as a fuel, any heavier alkanes dissolved just get burnt with the rest. If paraffin is used as a cleaner, no surprise to find it leaves a greasy mess behind. Diesel fuel is even worse.

                                                    Bottom line, Paraffin is OK for a cheap rough clean, but White Spirit is a better, cleaner, solvent when performance matters, but it has no anti-rust properties.

                                                    WD40 is a more sophisticated mix: alkanes are only one member of the Hydrocarbon family, and chemists use them and other additives to tune products to particular goals.

                                                    Dave

                                                    Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 24/03/2022 16:39:21

                                                    #591451
                                                    old mart
                                                    Participant
                                                      @oldmart

                                                      Acetone is just as flammable as brake cleaner, at work, we had two plastic tanks of acetone, first and final rinse as it was excellent at washing off Skydrol hydraulic fluid. Skydrol is a non flammable phosphate ester used in the hydraulic systems of commercial aircraft, nasty stuff. The rinse and dry with compressed air had to be quick as the acetone attacked even two pack epoxy paints. Military aircraft mostly used a red flammable hydraulic fluid, it didn't matter if they caught fire.

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