How hard is gauge plate?

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How hard is gauge plate?

This topic has 49 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 9 March 2022 at 10:56 by pgrbff.

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6 March 2022 at 15:17 #588434
pgrbff
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@pgrbff
I'm waiting for some gauge plate to arrive from the UK.

I have to drill and tap 4 through holes in a 1/4" strip, 10×24 UNC and 1/4".

I only have plug taps and hope they will be OK, but having never heard of gauge plate I have no idea how hard it is. Like stainless steel? Less hard?
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6 March 2022 at 15:17 #11138
pgrbff
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@pgrbff
6 March 2022 at 15:25 #588438
SillyOldDuffer
Moderator
@sillyoldduffer
It's delivered soft in annealed condition and is easily machined.

Gauge plate is usually hardened after being machined into a part. Typical instructions here. The plate is O1 or something very like it. Being a tool-steel, it can be made hard enough to bounce a file off.

Dave
6 March 2022 at 15:46 #588444
Speedy Builder5
Participant
@speedybuilder5
Drill your holes oversized to reduce load on the tap, use new, sharp taps. Use cutting oil and you should be OK.
6 March 2022 at 15:46 #588445
Baz
Participant
@baz89810
Nice sharp drills and you will be OK. Nowhere near as bad as stainless.
6 March 2022 at 16:30 #588458
pgrbff
Participant
@pgrbff
Thanks for the replies.
6 March 2022 at 16:31 #588459
Anonymous
In the fully tempered state gauge plate is between 15 and 20Rc, so not particularly hard. However, you will struggle with plug taps only, unless you go for a shallow thread engagement. I expect you will need rather less than 50%. It would be sensible to use a taper tap. New ones, from Drill Service, are around a fiver.

Andrew
6 March 2022 at 16:35 #588460
pgrbff
Participant
@pgrbff
They may only cost a fiver but I'm in Italy and it cost me nearly £20 in taxes and charges and postage to buy 2 £6 taps from the UK. Total cost £32
6 March 2022 at 17:25 #588467
bernard towers
Participant
@bernardtowers37738
surely there are tool suppliers in Italy/?
6 March 2022 at 18:32 #588484
noel shelley
Participant
@noelshelley55608
You will struggle to make a thread with only plug taps ! If you use a larger drill you will reduce the engagement to a point the thread may well strip with little load. Good luck. Noel.
6 March 2022 at 18:43 #588487
Baz
Participant
@baz89810
Isn’t there anyone in Italy who could grind a lead on one of your taps for you?
6 March 2022 at 19:54 #588502
Mark Rand
Participant
@markrand96270
For the next project, it might be worth getting taper or second cut taps. They'll do a full thread in a through hole if the tap can use its whole length and they can be converted into second or plug taps by grinding part of the end off.

Note also:- UK has taper, second and plug taps, US has taper, plug and bottoming tapse.
7 March 2022 at 07:41 #588537
pgrbff
Participant
@pgrbff
Posted by bernard towers on 06/03/2022 17:25:03:

surely there are tool suppliers in Italy/?

For what are typically American sizes at a reasonable cost?

There doesn't seem to be a hobby market here. I recently tried to buy a spare for a Mitutoyo gauge, which cost 2 euro. The supplier didn't take orders less than 50 euro and I had to have a VAT number.
7 March 2022 at 07:45 #588538
pgrbff
Participant
@pgrbff
Posted by Baz on 06/03/2022 18:43:02:

Isn’t there anyone in Italy who could grind a lead on one of your taps for you?

I'm sure there is somewhere. Finding them is the problem and feeling confident they know what they are doing.

I've been trying to get a piece of cast iron repaired for the last year. Everyone says they can do it, mostly tractor repair workshops, but I'm not convinced and none of them gives me the confidence they will succeed. They just say they will try.
7 March 2022 at 07:48 #588539
pgrbff
Participant
@pgrbff
Posted by Mark Rand on 06/03/2022 19:54:39:

For the next project, it might be worth getting taper or second cut taps. They'll do a full thread in a through hole if the tap can use its whole length and they can be converted into second or plug taps by grinding part of the end off.

Note also:- UK has taper, second and plug taps, US has taper, plug and bottoming tapse.

What exactly is a tap plug? I understand it has a more agressive longer taper?

In the past, I would have bought a full set but it is just not economical to do so anymore and I hate buying cheaper unknown quality from China.
7 March 2022 at 07:50 #588540
pgrbff
Participant
@pgrbff
I tried to err on the slight oversize with the drills. 3.85mm and 5.1mm.
7 March 2022 at 07:55 #588541
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by pgrbff on 07/03/2022 07:41:47:

Posted by bernard towers on 06/03/2022 17:25:03:

surely there are tool suppliers in Italy/?

For what are typically American sizes at a reasonable cost?

There doesn't seem to be a hobby market here. […]

.

This ebay Seller looks promising : **LINK**

https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/milancentral

… I have given the U.K. ‘Shop’ but presumably they also list on ebay.it

[ despite actually being based in Hong Kong ]

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 07/03/2022 08:03:15
7 March 2022 at 08:01 #588542
pgrbff
Participant
@pgrbff
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 07/03/2022 07:55:39:

Posted by pgrbff on 07/03/2022 07:41:47:

Posted by bernard towers on 06/03/2022 17:25:03:

surely there are tool suppliers in Italy/?

For what are typically American sizes at a reasonable cost?

There doesn't seem to be a hobby market here. […]

.

This ebay Seller looks promising : **LINK**

https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/milancentral

… I have given the U.K. ‘Shop’ but presumably they also list on ebay,it

MichaelG.

I have seen them before. Hong Kong based.
7 March 2022 at 08:05 #588543
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Sometimes you just have to go with the market:

**LINK**

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/363635079100?

MichaelG.
7 March 2022 at 08:17 #588545
pgrbff
Participant
@pgrbff
I did find them when I was searching.

Normally I'll buy used UK manufactured as I probably will only use them once. But buying from China is the same as buying from the UK. I still have to pay extortionate handling charges, often 18 euro or £15, plus VAT.

The 2 taps I bought from the UK which weigh a few grams, cost £10 standard airmail. I know businesses have to make money but the postage cost was probably close to a fiver.
7 March 2022 at 08:46 #588547
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Sorry for wasting your time … I will stop trying to help you.

MichaelG.
7 March 2022 at 08:59 #588548
pgrbff
Participant
@pgrbff
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 07/03/2022 08:46:34:

Sorry for wasting your time … I will stop trying to help you.

MichaelG.

I apologise if I have offended you. I certainly had no intention to do so. I'm just trying to explain how different it is here. It is a completely different culture here in Italy. DIY is uncommon.

More generally everyone relies on specialists here, I'm sure it is simply a moneymaking exercise. People don't even apply for their own driving licences, or pensions, or passports. There is always an office to go to where someone, a business rather than the state, will do these things for you.

You even have to pay someone to calculate the equivalent of the council tax for each individual property every year. This is despite the council knowing exactly what you owe them.

It's very frustrating.
7 March 2022 at 09:03 #588549
Anonymous
Posted by pgrbff on 07/03/2022 07:48:20:

What exactly is a tap plug? I understand it has a more agressive longer taper?

A plug tap is the last in the sequence of hand taps to be used. It has a very short taper, 1 to 1.5 times the thread pitch. One might get away using only a plug tap in brass, but not in gauge plate. If only one tap can be purchased buy spiral flute taps. They are machine taps intended to blind holes, but are fine when used by hand.

Andrew
7 March 2022 at 09:04 #588550
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
No offence taken … it was just a simple statement.

I sincerely hope that you find a suitable supplier, but I’m obviously not familiar with the current import regulations in Italy.

MichaelG.
7 March 2022 at 09:06 #588551
pgrbff
Participant
@pgrbff
Posted by Andrew Johnston on 07/03/2022 09:03:21:

Posted by pgrbff on 07/03/2022 07:48:20:

What exactly is a tap plug? I understand it has a more agressive longer taper?

A plug tap is the last in the sequence of hand taps to be used. It has a very short taper, 1 to 1.5 times the thread pitch. One might get away using only a plug tap in brass, but not in gauge plate. If only one tap can be purchased buy spiral flute taps. They are machine taps intended to blind holes, but are fine when used by hand.

Andrew

oh well, back to eBay
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