Buying stock?

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Buying stock?

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  • #572119
    Christopher Churchill
    Participant
      @christopherchurchill11285

      since I derived so much innnnfo from my last post, here we go again!

      As per https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=175621&p=1#2753584 I have a mini lathe and am in the process of purchasing a mini mill, and I'm looking for somewhere that will sell me a mixed bag of scrap stock to practise on, I'm based in Ireland does anyone know or have any recommendations where I can purchase this?

      Also please keep in mind I don't drive and live in the back of beyond… so I can't just pop to my local machinist shop or scrap yard, I'm going to need it posted and delivered to my house.

      thanks again for the warm welcome here!

      Chris

      P.S: Also as a side note I'm not against getting into smelting and buying something like this: https://www.ebay.ie/itm/283050503597?hash=item41e71fedad:g:L~8AAOSwIIFbRVxf I'm just not entirely sure if that is reasonable or feasible. 

      ( editing original instead of polluting the thread) 

      P.P.S

      I've just reached out to: http://www.m-machine-metals.co.uk vvia email and plan on giving them a call today.

      I'm also not against trading a website / e-commerce store for some stock if anyone is game ( cheeky I know but why not ask I suppose.. &nbsp

      Damn I'm not against trading my time and knowledge of website building for anything really it's the only thing I'm good at, at the moment…

      Edited By Christopher Churchill on 20/11/2021 12:15:39

      Edited By Christopher Churchill on 20/11/2021 12:16:18

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      #11024
      Christopher Churchill
      Participant
        @christopherchurchill11285
        #572126
        peak4
        Participant
          @peak4

          Christopher, There's a lot to be said for buying steel that's a known quantity when you're trying to teach yourself.
          I, and I suspect many others, have a stock of unknown/scrap steel which we dive into, but the results can be most unpredictable.
          It would be very easy to get disheartened with poor finishes when the problem is with the material, rather than the operator or machine.
          I'd have a look at your nearest steel stockholders and see if they can supply some free-cutting mild steel.
          They may not want to quote you over the phone, but my own supplier(s) are happy enough for someone to arrive, ideally when it's not busy, and buy bar ends etc. for cash.

          Bill

          #572129
          Christopher Churchill
          Participant
            @christopherchurchill11285

            Thank you Bill,

            and you'd recommend "free-cutting mild steel" to start off and practise? something like this say:

            https://www.metals4u.co.uk/materials/mild-steel

             

            Posted by peak4 on 20/11/2021 12:20:38:

            Christopher, There's a lot to be said for buying steel that's a known quantity when you're trying to teach yourself.
            I, and I suspect many others, have a stock of unknown/scrap steel which we dive into, but the results can be most unpredictable.
            It would be very easy to get disheartened with poor finishes when the problem is with the material, rather than the operator or machine.
            I'd have a look at your nearest steel stockholders and see if they can supply some free-cutting mild steel.
            They may not want to quote you over the phone, but my own supplier(s) are happy enough for someone to arrive, ideally when it's not busy, and buy bar ends etc. for cash.

            Bill

             

            Edited By Christopher Churchill on 20/11/2021 12:28:29

            Edited By Christopher Churchill on 20/11/2021 12:29:12

            #572131
            peak4
            Participant
              @peak4

              It's more the Free Cutting bit I was thinking of.
              See this page on their blog; I've no experience of the company myself.
              https://www.metals4u.co.uk/blog/en1a-mild-steel

              I'd wait for others to comment before committing yourself; my own supplier doesn't do mail order.
              Steel being heavy, the postage can be the problem in buying a load of assorted stock.

              Bill

              #572138
              Ady1
              Participant
                @ady1

                Probbly cheaper to visit a scrappie and pick up bits to start with

                Pay a pal to take you and bring sacks/old-covers for the metal

                #572139
                Christopher Churchill
                Participant
                  @christopherchurchill11285

                  @ady1 whilst I agree with you, I don't know ANYONE where I live and live in the back of beyond I don't have a pal I can pay or anything similar I'm a hermit who lives in the woods

                  Posted by Ady1 on 20/11/2021 13:01:21:

                  Probbly cheaper to visit a scrappie and pick up bits to start with

                  Pay a pal to take you and bring sacks/old-covers for the metal

                  #572140
                  JasonB
                  Moderator
                    @jasonb

                    You won't go far wrong with M-machine and at least you will know the parentage of the metal, scrap could be anything and you won't know if the bad finish you may get is down to the machine, the material, the cutters or the operator.

                    Another I use is Ringwood, best to buy by the metre or even 3 x 1m in the smaller dia steel sizes as it's not much more than a foot from some ME suppliers, they also do boxes of offcuts

                    #572149
                    Martin W
                    Participant
                      @martinw

                      I wouldn't recommend going to a scrap yard and buying lumps of metal as you will have no idea of the specification for that material. It could be anything from soft and gummy to hardened metal, if the former then it will likely tear rather than cut which can give a really rough finish and if hardened then getting it to cut may well be difficult.

                      This could well lead to you chasing problems that are nothing to do with your kit or abilities. How do I know? from experience of course. A classic example was some cheap aluminium offcuts I bought as they appeared to be a bargain. Some was OK but the rest was so soft that a standard well sharpened tool just seemed to smudge the surface and left a chronically poor cut. Changed to a known piece T6/6082 and instantly got a mirror finish with the same tool and settings. I have also had problems with steel of unknown specification, this turned well and the finish was pretty good but when looked at the next morning had bent like a banana as the stresses relieved.

                      Buy your metals from a recognised company who give the specification of the material being supplied. Yes it may be marginally more expensive but will save you time, heartache and could well wind up cheaper in the long run. Once you know what you want to do then you can reduce shipping costs by combining your order with a supplier.

                      I know this isn't answering the main questions in your opening post but it could well stop you becoming frustrated and disheartened re the hobby.

                      For starting I would recommend a steel such as EN1a (old specification but still frequently used) or equivalent and an aluminium alloy like T6/6082 using sharp HSS cutters and mills.

                      HTH

                      Martin W

                      #572172
                      HOWARDT
                      Participant
                        @howardt

                        Yo could try ringing a few steel stock holders near you. Some stock holders supply cut steel blanks to engineering shops and often have the ends of bar left from the automated cutting process. I visit one occasionally and they have bags of mixed round or rectangular that they sell by weight rather than put it in the scrap bin.

                        #572173
                        Peter Cook 6
                        Participant
                          @petercook6

                          What do you mean by practice upon.

                          I started a couple of years ago in the same position – albeit not quite as far out in the back of beyond but a long way from a convenient source of metal.

                          I have discovered that using a lathe or mill to make something (once you have decided what you want to make) 40% of the time is spent deciding how you are going to machine the thing ! 40% working out how to hold it down so that you can and then about 20% actually cutting metal.

                          The first 80% takes a fair amount of practice and is highly specific to what you want to make. The last 20% not so much – there is a lot of help available on feeds, speeds and cutting lubricants.

                          Rather than simply making swarf to practice the last 20%, my advice would be to decide what you want to start out making (I made clamps and T-nuts for the mill as a start). Order 50-100%+ more metal than you need for the job. I use a variety of suppliers off that well known auction site.

                          Do the job – then move on to the next item you want (or have discovered you need!). If you screw up the first attempt you will have enough metal to try again. If you get there, then you have some spare stock for the next time you need that size.

                          Once the T-nuts are done pick another project ( I chose Harold Halls simple grinding rest) and repeat the exercise.

                          #572176
                          Mike Poole
                          Participant
                            @mikepoole82104

                            You mention using material to practice on, I don’t know whether your practice is just going to be turning stock into swarf until you can hit the size you require with the desired surface finish or whether a simple project where you are prepared to scrap the part and start again until it is satisfactory. A simple project will be very satisfying when completed. The free cutting steels are suitable for many parts particularly if welding is not part of the process, the lead content of many free machining steels will compromise welding. A scrap bin for the failures will always be useful for smaller parts to be made from the scrappers. I would seriously look for suppliers that are geographically closer to you to avoid import issues and excessive postage or courier costs.

                            Mike

                            #572181
                            larry phelan 1
                            Participant
                              @larryphelan1

                              Living in the sticks and not driving ??????? You,re not exactly on a winner, are you ?

                              Scrap dealers are a lucky dip, at the best of times only to be used as a last resort.

                              You dont say where you live, but there are good suppliers in Dublin and Cork and a few other places [do a check ]

                              When you work out what you need, pay a friend to make a trip to get proper stuff, not junk. Two or three trips a year should be enough. I make one trip to Dublin per year for any serious supplies, lesser stuff I find locally.

                              Postage can be way off [steel is not lightweight ] and I find that most of these suppliers love cash money, without the hassle of paperwork.

                              For what it,s worth, There is a supplier in Dublin called "Special Steel" who keep a vast range of steels, and will cut to order or sell short lengths of whatever you want.

                              There are also suppliers of Brass and Ali in the same area [one trip covers all ]

                              There is also a good supplier of brass and ali in Cork, so I think a trip might be well worth your while, since this stuff is not going to come to you. {Dont ask how I know ! ]

                              Three phase got lost about 20 miles away from me, but that,s another story.

                              Happy hunting, my friend !cheeky

                              #572197
                              jimmy b
                              Participant
                                @jimmyb

                                I'd recommend finding out what the post limit is on weight and just hitting that with a supplier.

                                I'm lucky enough to be a full time engineer, so have pretty much all I can want!

                                When I do need to buy, I do use Macc Models (they advertise on here.

                                The heads up on off cuts is very real, we are purchasing a huge amount of Ø90mm EN24T, 2.1m long, that is going to be a very good off cut for someone!!! Basically, anything under a bar length (3, 4 or 6 meters) is costed at the bar length.

                                Good luck.

                                Jim

                                #572215
                                SillyOldDuffer
                                Moderator
                                  @sillyoldduffer

                                  Metals have different properties so it pays to try them all. My favourite is Brass because it machines well and doesn't need coolant. Bit pricey.

                                  I use a lot of Aluminium for easy cutting, light weight and corrosion resistance, but make sure it's a machinable alloy, many aren't! Aluminium is a little soft, so I switch to Mild-steel when more hardness, weight and perhaps strength is needed.

                                  Leaded mild-steel is much easier to machine than ordinary mild-steel. The main advantage of bog standard mild-steel is cheapness: on a lathe or mill it can be a little gritty and tends to smear, making it a little tricky to get good finish. Cutting fluid helps.

                                  Silver-steel for making hardenable tools.

                                  Depending on what you do, stainless and high carbon steels are useful too. I rarely use them, but that;s just me.

                                  Cast-iron if you're into casting kits – filthy stuff, goes everywher. Beware upsetting domestic authority by innocently getting black smuts all round the house after thinking you'd cleaned up. Try much harder next time!

                                  Magnesium and Titanium, probably not!

                                  Dave

                                  #572228
                                  Howard Lewis
                                  Participant
                                    @howardlewis46836

                                    Using scrap ends can be a lucky, or unlucky dip!, Especially for a newbie who will know that there is a problem, but not how to solve it

                                    Avoid rebar like the plague. Its foul stuff to machine, in my experience, and of friends

                                    Not impossible to get an acceptable finish, but FAR from easy..

                                    The only thing that you will learn from it is how nasty and difficult it is.

                                    Gain experience on free cutting mild steel.

                                    Brass sprays chips everywhere.

                                    Aluminium likes to weld itself to the tool tip. Paraffin (Kerosene ) is the recommended lubricant, although white spirit often suffices. Cast Aluminium does not produce as good a finish as bar.

                                    But both can produce a good shiny finish.

                                    Howard

                                    #572229
                                    Nicholas Farr
                                    Participant
                                      @nicholasfarr14254

                                      Hi, most of the steel I have is what short off cuts from my day jobs that I've had for the asking, other stuff is normally got from exhibitions, but I've used Macc Models a couple of times this last year and their pricing and service was OK. I've also been able to get a small selection of scrapped ram rod from my day jobs, where they have been replaced for one reason or other, which has always been good for reuse. Plenty of supplies on Ebay but can be pricy. You could try Noggin End Metals College Engineering Supplies Kennions to name a few.

                                      Regards Nick.

                                      #572243
                                      Sam B 1
                                      Participant
                                        @samb1

                                        i'm quite new to the hobby and so far i've only used Macc Models to purchase stock, but of my 3 orders so far none have been without problems; the first order let me buy things that ended up being out of stock, in the second order some of the stock came in multiple smaller lengths instead of the length that was advertised, and in the third time there were items left out of the order that, as of this post, still haven't appeared after nearly 3 weeks

                                        not an impressive track record to say the least, but at least their prices are good and they've eventually rectified all but the latest problem (fingers crossed)

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