Value opinions for used clarke CL500M

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Value opinions for used clarke CL500M

This topic has 40 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 23 December 2020 at 18:30 by Bill Dawes.

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21 December 2020 at 14:37 #514763
Stuart Cox 3
Participant
@stuartcox3
Just wondered what your opinions are on the value of the Clarke CM500L currently for sale on eBay bids at £447? It is just up the road from me so I can go and have a look first but as a lathe virgin I don't really know what it is worth?

I'd appreciate any advice!

Thanks Stu
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21 December 2020 at 14:37 #10588
Stuart Cox 3
Participant
@stuartcox3
21 December 2020 at 15:14 #514770
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
Search the Forum for Clarke CL430 (lathe only ) or Clarke CL500M for views of these machines. Opinions vary widely!

From what I saw of it, it had its limitations; but that may just be me!

A friend with one was recently quoted six months delivery for spares!

He obtained standard bearings locally, and we made up a new housing to carry a standard 65 x 45 x 10 lipseal instead of the, to my eyes, crude, O E sealing arrangement.

The Chester Model B looks to be a very similar machine, and Warco used to sell what looked like the same machine..

Read the reviews on here.

If it will do what you want, it may be the machine for you.

Howard
21 December 2020 at 15:27 #514773
Stuart Cox 3
Participant
@stuartcox3
Thanks Howard, what do you think its worth with the tooling?
21 December 2020 at 15:37 #514775
Ady1
Participant
@ady1
looks okay for 500 as a first machine, especially with all the bits

Get every tiny thing you can, take the lot and anything else

Looks like a genuine seller and will deffo get you started, ask if he's got a 4 jaw lying about

A few comments here

Edited By Ady1 on 21/12/2020 15:49:44
21 December 2020 at 15:38 #514776
Dave Halford
Participant
@davehalford22513
One thing tends to lead to another in this hobby.

Take a hint from the seller, he's gone larger! Unless you have space issues.
21 December 2020 at 15:54 #514782
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
If there are extras on offer, take them, especially if a four jaw chuck They are, apparently very expensive from Machine mart. Although there are other ways of obtaining and fitting one without making Mr Clarke a multi millionaire.

The problem with E bay is that you buy unseen, unless it is near enough to be able to visit and examine closely.

Also, unless you can collect, there is always the risk of damage in transit.

Ultimately, you have to make the choice, but do as much as possible research first of all. Including a long hard think about "Will it do all that I want now, or in the relatively near future"?

Howard
21 December 2020 at 16:01 #514785
Stuart Cox 3
Participant
@stuartcox3
Posted by Howard Lewis on 21/12/2020 15:54:34:

If there are extras on offer, take them, especially if a four jaw chuck They are, apparently very expensive from Machine mart. Although there are other ways of obtaining and fitting one without making Mr Clarke a multi millionaire.

The problem with E bay is that you buy unseen, unless it is near enough to be able to visit and examine closely.

Also, unless you can collect, there is always the risk of damage in transit.

Ultimately, you have to make the choice, but do as much as possible research first of all. Including a long hard think about "Will it do all that I want now, or in the relatively near future"?

Howard

Thanks again for your reply Howard. I am going to have a look, as mentioned it is just up the road from me.

I am just interested to know what the general consensus is to the value of the machine in terms of cost? I don't want to overpay for it!
21 December 2020 at 16:03 #514787
john halfpenny
Participant
@johnhalfpenny52803
You are getting a lot for your money. I doubt you would lose. I can't see the set of gears, and you will need these to power the leadscrew, and to cut threads. The stand is not the official one, but looks at least as strong. I would say it is a more recent one – say 10-15 years old – which are allegedly of poorer quality. The mill/drill is not very good unless taking very light cuts, and you will need a raising block to use it – but it works. It's a versatile machine, and there are workarounds for the few bits of compromised design. It's a bit of a faff to change speed, by changing belt pulleys, but on the other hand belt drive is fairly safe for a novice. Mine is 30 years old, and hasn't required any repairs or spares.
21 December 2020 at 16:18 #514790
Stuart Cox 3
Participant
@stuartcox3
Posted by john halfpenny on 21/12/2020 16:03:31:

You are getting a lot for your money. I doubt you would lose. I can't see the set of gears, and you will need these to power the leadscrew, and to cut threads. The stand is not the official one, but looks at least as strong. I would say it is a more recent one – say 10-15 years old – which are allegedly of poorer quality. The mill/drill is not very good unless taking very light cuts, and you will need a raising block to use it – but it works. It's a versatile machine, and there are workarounds for the few bits of compromised design. It's a bit of a faff to change speed, by changing belt pulleys, but on the other hand belt drive is fairly safe for a novice. Mine is 30 years old, and hasn't required any repairs or spares.

Thanks John. How much do you think it is worth?
21 December 2020 at 16:22 #514791
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
If the stand does seem a bit flimsy, bolt on diagonal braces at all the corners, or even from corner to corner.

Yes, you do need all the changewheels if you are to be able to maximise the range of feeds and threads that can be produced.

It may even be possible to extend the range by adding in some extras, if you can obtain or make them.

The more the merrier!

You may not need a steady all the time; but when you do, if you haven't got it!

Belt drive is a useful safeguard, in case of a stack up, the belt will slip, as well as being quieter. than gears.

A stack up with any gear drive can cause problems, (DON'T ask! ) far greater than having to buy and fit a new belt, if the worst comes to the worst.. Three three sheave pulleys give lots of speeds more easily than gears, much as like gearboxes.

Changewheels come into their own for setting up special ratios when you need them. Supposedly, the coarsest pitch that my lathe can cut is 3 mm. By suitable changewheel set up, it has cut a 4 mm pitch for a one off!

Howard
21 December 2020 at 16:25 #514792
Ex contributor
Participant
@mgnbuk
I am just interested to know what the general consensus is to the value of the machine in terms of cost? I don't want to overpay for it!

I would say it is around what it is worth at the current price (£447), though I was a bit suprised to see Machine Mart want nearly £1400 for them now – they used to be around half that when I first looked at them. And £447 is more than I would want to pay for one, even with the "extras".

I toyed with the idea of the Chester (MF42B ? ) version before I got my late father's Boxford – Chester in their early days didn't offer much more than that model & touted it at classic motorcyle shows, which is where I saw one. As MM used to send me "Vat Free" vouchers, I gave one of the showroom CL500Ms a close looking at with a view to buying with the voucher and that put me right off. It felt worn out when new – everything was loose, with a lot of backlash present. Finish of machined and painted parts was poor. Lowest spindle speed was high (160 rpm IIRC) which, coupled to a permanently connected leadscrew (no half nuts, no rack & pinion saddle drive) looked like it would make for "interesting" screwcutting. General concensus appears to be that the "milling head" is a waste of space – the only thing I recall about it was that it didn't have graduations on the quill fine feed. A substantial raising block is sold as an accessory to raise the vice to somewhere near the spindle, which I don't recall seeing in the listing pictures.

I dare say there are people out there doing good work on them, but I have been unable to find anyone who has put up a decent review with examples of what they have managed to do. Going to have a look rather than buying unseen would be a good move.

Nigel B.

ps. If you do decide to buy it, I could do you a good deal on a fixed steady. I bought one with a view to modifying it to suit the Boxford, as Boxford fixed steadies were like rocking horse poo. I ended up swapping the Boxford for my current Super 7 before that project got sorted, so the un-molested steady is still in a cupboard.

Edited By mgnbuk on 21/12/2020 16:28:25
21 December 2020 at 16:39 #514796
Anonymous
Posted by Stuart Cox 3 on 21/12/2020 16:01:15:

I am just interested to know what the general consensus is to the value of the machine in terms of cost?

Unfortunately there is no absolute number for the value that is good or bad. It all depends upon the value of the item to the buyer. As an example I have no interest in it, so for me the value is zero.

Andrew
21 December 2020 at 16:44 #514798
john halfpenny
Participant
@johnhalfpenny52803
I think around £500 would be very fair. The toolpost and steadies have value. The bad points are lack of half nut, and high lowest speed. The latter is fixable, and there is an easy workaround for the former. Good points are a big swing, and a 1" through bore in the chuck spindle. Bear in mind that the Clarke showroom samples are not adjusted, so everything is loose – but mine works smoothly with little play or backlash; it simply takes time to dial out. The castings are rough, but it's bottom of the market – my experience is that the machining is fine. The Clarke four jaw is a massive thing, much bigger than the three jaw and twice as heavy. I have one, but I also have a 100mm four jaw for which I made a simple backplate – total cost less than £50. Too many folk make vague criticism and/or make unfair comparison with lathes of much better quality. I suspect you might pay £2000+ for a british benchtop lathe with the same kit and it's own disadvantages. Yourmoney, your choice.
21 December 2020 at 17:07 #514805
Stuart Cox 3
Participant
@stuartcox3
Posted by john halfpenny on 21/12/2020 16:44:49:

I think around £500 would be very fair. The toolpost and steadies have value. The bad points are lack of half nut, and high lowest speed. The latter is fixable, and there is an easy workaround for the former. Good points are a big swing, and a 1" through bore in the chuck spindle. Bear in mind that the Clarke showroom samples are not adjusted, so everything is loose – but mine works smoothly with little play or backlash; it simply takes time to dial out. The castings are rough, but it's bottom of the market – my experience is that the machining is fine. The Clarke four jaw is a massive thing, much bigger than the three jaw and twice as heavy. I have one, but I also have a 100mm four jaw for which I made a simple backplate – total cost less than £50. Too many folk make vague criticism and/or make unfair comparison with lathes of much better quality. I suspect you might pay £2000+ for a british benchtop lathe with the same kit and it's own disadvantages. Yourmoney, your choice.

Thank you John, that's really helpful!
21 December 2020 at 17:09 #514806
Stuart Cox 3
Participant
@stuartcox3
Posted by mgnbuk on 21/12/2020 16:25:18:

I am just interested to know what the general consensus is to the value of the machine in terms of cost? I don't want to overpay for it!

I would say it is around what it is worth at the current price (£447), though I was a bit suprised to see Machine Mart want nearly £1400 for them now – they used to be around half that when I first looked at them. And £447 is more than I would want to pay for one, even with the "extras".

I toyed with the idea of the Chester (MF42B ? ) version before I got my late father's Boxford – Chester in their early days didn't offer much more than that model & touted it at classic motorcyle shows, which is where I saw one. As MM used to send me "Vat Free" vouchers, I gave one of the showroom CL500Ms a close looking at with a view to buying with the voucher and that put me right off. It felt worn out when new – everything was loose, with a lot of backlash present. Finish of machined and painted parts was poor. Lowest spindle speed was high (160 rpm IIRC) which, coupled to a permanently connected leadscrew (no half nuts, no rack & pinion saddle drive) looked like it would make for "interesting" screwcutting. General concensus appears to be that the "milling head" is a waste of space – the only thing I recall about it was that it didn't have graduations on the quill fine feed. A substantial raising block is sold as an accessory to raise the vice to somewhere near the spindle, which I don't recall seeing in the listing pictures.

I dare say there are people out there doing good work on them, but I have been unable to find anyone who has put up a decent review with examples of what they have managed to do. Going to have a look rather than buying unseen would be a good move.

Nigel B.

ps. If you do decide to buy it, I could do you a good deal on a fixed steady. I bought one with a view to modifying it to suit the Boxford, as Boxford fixed steadies were like rocking horse poo. I ended up swapping the Boxford for my current Super 7 before that project got sorted, so the un-molested steady is still in a cupboard.

Edited By mgnbuk on 21/12/2020 16:28:25

Thanks John
21 December 2020 at 17:47 #514809
Pete.
Participant
@pete-2
What's your budget, do you have a van to transport a lathe?
21 December 2020 at 17:59 #514815
Stuart Cox 3
Participant
@stuartcox3
Posted by Pete. on 21/12/2020 17:47:50:

What's your budget, do you have a van to transport a lathe?

Around £1200 and yes I have a van, VW T5
21 December 2020 at 18:19 #514817
Pete.
Participant
@pete-2
If you don't need to factor moving costs, your 1200 could be better spent, a Boxford wouldn't take up any more room, I have a feeling it would take about 2 months of using that Clarke and you'd regret not spending a little more, on the other hand, you probably wouldn't lose that much if you sold it on buying at that price.

It still has 6 days to run, most bidding happens in the last 2 minutes, there's another on there for 1300 with 123 people watching it, I genuinely don't understand what is going through their minds.
21 December 2020 at 18:39 #514820
Stuart Cox 3
Participant
@stuartcox3
Posted by Pete. on 21/12/2020 18:19:48:

If you don't need to factor moving costs, your 1200 could be better spent, a Boxford wouldn't take up any more room, I have a feeling it would take about 2 months of using that Clarke and you'd regret not spending a little more, on the other hand, you probably wouldn't lose that much if you sold it on buying at that price.

It still has 6 days to run, most bidding happens in the last 2 minutes, there's another on there for 1300 with 123 people watching it, I genuinely don't understand what is going through their minds.

Thanks Pete, but I've been through everything that fits my budget, requirements etc and in an ideal world I'd like a Chester DB10 super but new they are a little over budget new and I haven't seen any come up used as yet. The reason I am considering the Clarke is because it fits my budget, it will fit my workshop and it from what I've read it will be ok to learn on
21 December 2020 at 18:42 #514821
Stuart Cox 3
Participant
@stuartcox3
…I should add I couldn't find a Boxford that would fit my workshop space that has a 26mm min spindle bore and a 5" chuck
21 December 2020 at 18:46 #514822
john halfpenny
Participant
@johnhalfpenny52803
It's basic but capable Stuart. Sell it on when you have learned. I suspect it will end up at £700-800. I certainly wouldn't buy one new – there are much better new options now, and a much wider range.
21 December 2020 at 19:06 #514825
Stuart Cox 3
Participant
@stuartcox3
Posted by john halfpenny on 21/12/2020 18:46:49:

It's basic but capable Stuart. Sell it on when you have learned. I suspect it will end up at £700-800. I certainly wouldn't buy one new – there are much better new options now, and a much wider range.

Thank you John, I appreciate your reply.

As far as much better new options, unless I have missed any, after a lot of research over the last few weeks the only machines I can find that fit my criteria below is a Chester DB10 super, Warco WM250, Clarke CL430M and a Sealey SM27. Chester and Warco machines being very similar and the Clarke and the Sealey also being very similar

My criteria

5 " chuck, spindle bore min 26mm, thread cutting capabilities, would be nice to have a powered cross feed but not a biggie, ideal overall dimensions around 1100 – 1200mm length x 560mm depth x 560mm high

Please let me know anyone if I have missed any machines that fit that criteria?
21 December 2020 at 19:21 #514832
Pete.
Participant
@pete-2
It does end just after Christmas, maybe you'll get lucky and post Christmas finances put others off and you get it for a reasonable price, it's not a huge amount of money, if it's what you want, sneak a bid in last minute.
21 December 2020 at 19:34 #514833
john halfpenny
Participant
@johnhalfpenny52803
You could fix up a powered cross feed with a fork drive and a hand held battery drill; there's a solution for every demand. Please let us know how you get on.
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