Hole for Morse Taper

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Hole for Morse Taper

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  • #10365
    Chris TickTock
    Participant
      @christicktock
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      #489676
      Chris TickTock
      Participant
        @christicktock

        Hi, I wish to hold a 8mm collet in a piece of hex aluminium bar, 5 inches long for indexing purposes. The collet has a morse #1 taper how do I go about it, any ideas?

        Chris

        #489679
        JasonB
        Moderator
          @jasonb

          Does it really need to be 5" long? If you cut it in half it would make subsequent machining a lot easier and also more practical in use when holding your collet block vertically. Also what is the A/F of your hex stock?

          #489680
          Chris TickTock
          Participant
            @christicktock
            Posted by JasonB on 08/08/2020 17:53:28:

            Does it really need to be 5" long? If you cut it in half it would make subsequent machining a lot easier and also more practical in use when holding your collet block vertically. Also what is the A/F of your hex stock?

            Jason, 5 inches is a rough guide . my initial uses are to hold steady on a bench sander in my hands the hex aluminium holding the collet holding the pivot wire I wish to form edges on my bench tool for either drilling or reeming. Difficult if under a couple of inches and I need ideally to use a bolt to tighten the collet on the stock so I guess a min 3.5 inches. Collets are expensive so starting point is full length of a collet which are 1.5 inches but i suspect the taper will need to be held in a parallel adapter inside the hex aluminium.

            Chris

            #489682
            JasonB
            Moderator
              @jasonb

              Chris just to be sure are you asking about the Sherline collet adaptor for 8mm or WW type collets or an 8mm MT1 collet

              Edited By JasonB on 08/08/2020 18:15:00

              #489686
              SillyOldDuffer
              Moderator
                @sillyoldduffer

                Like a giant Pin Vice? (Example from RDG holds up to 3mm)

                Dave

                #489687
                Chris TickTock
                Participant
                  @christicktock
                  Posted by JasonB on 08/08/2020 18:07:57:

                  Chris just to be sure are you asking about the Sherline collet adaptor for 8mm or WW type collets or an 8mm MT1 collet

                  Edited By JasonB on 08/08/2020 18:15:00

                  Yes my fault, sorry these are Sherline WW and not 8mm watchmakers spec.

                  I refer you to: https://www.sherline.com/product/11601178-ww-collet-set/

                  The collets fit inside a plastic adapter and a bolt tightens everything up. However the point I think is that the plastic adapter goes into the MT1. I will go and measure the shanks on the lathe collets to see if they are straight or tapered. They may be straight? I will get back to you.

                  update

                  The collet shanks are indeed  straight and it is the metal (notplastic) adpter which fits in the MT1. The torque from the bolt holds the collet steady. the lathe Sherline WW collets measure at 7.9mm across their shank.

                  Chris

                   

                  Edited By Chris TickTock on 08/08/2020 18:48:28

                  Edited By Chris TickTock on 08/08/2020 18:48:41

                  #489690
                  Howard Lewis
                  Participant
                    @howardlewis46836

                    Don't know the collet that you are using, but if it is an open ended one:

                    Does the holder have be Aluminium/?

                    If not, you could buy a parallel socket with an internal 1 MT. You would need to modify it (Drill/Tap the blank end? ) and insert a plug, before fitting the collet, so that a screw could be used to push out the collet, when you wish to release / extract it.

                    As an example, Arc Euro sell such sleeves for a little over £10 + postage. Choose 3/4 or 1 inch OD.

                    Admittedly, this would limit the length of material that could be passed back through the collet, but this same problem exists with Morse Taper ER collet holder, and Morse Taper and R8 collets used with a drawbar..

                    Just a thought

                    Howard

                    #489696
                    Chris TickTock
                    Participant
                      @christicktock
                      Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 08/08/2020 18:32:37:

                      Like a giant Pin Vice? (Example from RDG holds up to 3mm)

                      Dave

                      Embarrassing to miss the obvious..good idea Dave. Maybe the collet would hold the stock better though. All i need to do is to drill a 7.9mm hole with a chamfer at the start and the bolt will tighten all up well. I will however play with the pin vice, might save some work.

                      chris

                      Chris

                      #489697
                      Michael Gilligan
                      Participant
                        @michaelgilligan61133

                        Posted by Chris TickTock on 08/08/2020 18:38:43:

                        .

                        …  these are Sherline WW and not 8mm watchmakers spec.

                        I refer you to: https://www.sherline.com/product/11601178-ww-collet-set/

                        […]

                        .

                        Chris,

                        WW stands for Webster Whitcomb … which is the standard for American watchmakers’ lathes.

                        MichaelG.

                        .

                        See. http://fwderbyshire.com/

                        Edited By Michael Gilligan on 08/08/2020 19:13:45

                        #489701
                        JasonB
                        Moderator
                          @jasonb

                          My thoughts

                          1. Aluminium will soon dent and ding so not an ideal surface to be indexing against especially once you have been rubbing it about on stray abrasive from your sander.

                          2. Aluminium may gall resulting in the adaptor sticking and the drawbar roughing up the end unless additional washers are used.

                          For these two reasons I would go with steel.

                          3. Why add the added possible runout of an adaptor when you could machine a socket to take the WW collets directly, these need both taper and parallel surfaces. Much smaller hole required so more Sherline friendly

                          4. As the WW collets have an external thread how will a bolt work to tighten them, you need a drawbar with a female thread or ideally a draw tube so you can hold long lengths of pivot wire etc which is better than holding stub ends.

                          This thread may be useful, just make them longer and use a drawtube rather than nut

                          If you still want to go down the aluminium/ MT1 route then just bore it out parallel and Loctite in one of these.

                           

                          Edited By JasonB on 08/08/2020 19:41:06

                          #489707
                          JasonB
                          Moderator
                            @jasonb

                            These may be easier with the added spindle nose thread thrown in.

                            #489716
                            JasonB
                            Moderator
                              @jasonb

                              Giving it a bit mor ethought and bearing in mind the small scale work Chris want to do eg clock making/repair and the general small size of his machines I think I would go for something like this.

                              ww collet blocks.jpg

                              Square and hex collet block to take the WW collets directly which could be 16mm A/F and length to leave the collet's thread exposed at the back much like Phil's 10mm collet blocks.

                              For hand held use the "draw tube" can take the form of a handle, if made the same dia as the block's A/F it will not cause the block to tilt when resting on the sander table etc and can also be used as a nice hand vice. A nut can also be made which would be less cumbersome if the blocks were being held in the milling vice and a larger diameter one could also be made to act as a stop much like this Levin one.

                              keeping the actual blocks separate will make them easier to machine on the Sherline and you don't need as much material if the handle and nuts are interchangable.

                              Edited By JasonB on 08/08/2020 20:26:06

                              #489758
                              Martin Connelly
                              Participant
                                @martinconnelly55370

                                Smart & Brown collet blocks. An example of what Jason is suggesting.

                                img_20200809_084955.jpg

                                Martin C

                                #489763
                                Chris TickTock
                                Participant
                                  @christicktock

                                  Thank you to all for posting, I have loads of info to progress this now from your posts.

                                  Chris

                                  #489765
                                  Chris TickTock
                                  Participant
                                    @christicktock
                                    Posted by JasonB on 08/08/2020 19:46:41:

                                    These may be easier with the added spindle nose thread thrown in.

                                    Funny enough Jason I got these last week, not yet investigated…might be the time to do so.

                                    Chris

                                    #489781
                                    JasonB
                                    Moderator
                                      @jasonb

                                      Just use them and make a longer handle for the drawbar if you are worried about getting fingers too close to sander.

                                      #489806
                                      Michael Gilligan
                                      Participant
                                        @michaelgilligan61133
                                        Posted by JasonB on 09/08/2020 10:12:40:

                                        .

                                        Just use them …

                                        .

                                        yes

                                        MichaelG.

                                        #489827
                                        Chris TickTock
                                        Participant
                                          @christicktock
                                          Posted by Michael Gilligan on 09/08/2020 12:13:38:

                                          Posted by JasonB on 09/08/2020 10:12:40:

                                          .

                                          Just use them …

                                          .

                                          yes

                                          MichaelG.

                                          Yes indeed, just ordered a reduced draw bolt needed. Had to brush up on collets supplied by Sherline. Sherline collets come in 2 basic types. For the lathe made to WW spec and use an adapter which sits inside the MT1. For the mill these are different and just pull up inside the MT1 directly.

                                          Chris

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