1. Bigger is always better bearing in mind size of mill table and any height issues.

2. Mounting with the jaws parallel to the T slots is often simpler unless the spacing of the T slots matches the vice mounting holes/slots closely (can get around this with an intermediate fixture plate with holes to match both table and vice)

3. Only real problem with overhanging the table is that anything sticking out of the back of the table will reduce the usable Y axis movement, The area of interest is that between the jaws and that which the cutter can reach.

It can be useful to be able to mount the vice at an angle to the table! I've got one mounted at 45° at the moment for a part that needs that angle in its geometry. If you don't have a riser block for your mill, you might find that, while useful to set angles, a swivel base uses more height than you want.

Think about drilling – the vice eats daylight below the quill and so does the drill chuck. Taller is not necessarily better.

I removed the swivel base from my vice almost as soon as I got it, and it has never been used.

Jason's point about the handwheel is dead on. Also the bolt positions relative to the tee slot. You could easily end up not being able to use much of the increased capacity of a bigger vice because it has to be clamped to the front slot.

There are all kinds of ways to hold work on a mill of which a machine vice is only one. Angle plates and toolmaker's clamps are very useful, so is a 4-jaw chuck sometimes. You may be able to clamp larger items direct to the table that wouldn't fit in a vice.

I have a 100mm vice but also a small one fettled from a set of "precision ground" castings from Chronos and one of the little Myford ones, they all have their uses.

And if you clamp the vice down parallel to the X axis then the handle will foul the table!

Edited By John Haine on 26/05/2020 07:27:08

You wouldn't think 20mm a huge jump up from a 80mm to a 100mm but looking at Jason's comparison the 100 is a hell of a lump compared to the 80, glad I went with 80mm.

Not so certain about that – only yesterday I was wanting to mill a slot across the end of a bit of 1" hex steel bar, face to face. The easiest way is to hold the bar in a swivelling vice across 2 flats and swivel the vice 30 degrees. Job done.

Edited By Nick Clarke 3 on 26/05/2020 08:49:38

Edited By Nick Clarke 3 on 26/05/2020 08:50:52

I have the 80mm versatile vice from ARC (the smallest they do) as part of the 'starter kit' I bought with my little SX1L

It has been very useful to have the capacity on hand, but occasionally it feels out of proportion and gets in the way.

I suspect you may find the same with the 100mm on a larger milling machine – useful to have the capacity sometimes, but getting in the way at others.

The old English Abwood vices had four bolting down slots,two in line with the jaws,two at the ends so they could be mounted on both x and y axies. the bigger the vice the heavier it gets,I dont know why the modern vices only have two slots.Perhaps the eastern suppliers copied the wrong vices.

A machine vice needs to be sized appropriately. My main vice overhangs by about a third:

Personally I wouldn't bother with a swivel base. On the few occasions where it might have been useful I just clamp the vice at the appropriate angle. I've never used my machine vice parallel to the table. If I need to clamp something parallel I clamp direct to the table, or there are vices designed for the purpose:

I reckon 75-80% of my machining on the vertical and CNC mills uses the machine vice. The remaining percentage is with the work in the dividing head, rotary table, clamped to angle plates:

Or clamped to the table:

On the horizontal mill it's the other way round, I rarely use the machine vice:

I have a smaller toolmakers style vice, although I've never used it.

Like all workshop tooling, buy the best you can afford – it makes life easier. And that's important for lazy people like me.

Andrew

Workholding is always a compromise between convenience, rigidity and space. Most of the time I use a DH-1 vice because it's adaptable, suits the size of work I do and leaves plenty of space on the worktable. However, as it's jaws are quite shallow, I sometimes put a larger 125mm vice on instead. But if I take the DH-1 off, I'm just as likely to not use a vice at all. Certain jobs beg to be bolted direct on to the table, and doing so removes nasty bendy vices from the equation!

Both my vices came with swivel bases. Rarely used! For most jobs they waste space and reduce rigidity for zero benefit. Take them off!

Bigger is better provided it fits the machine and size of work being done. A huge vice on a tiny machine would be a right pain and vice versa.

Dave

The other thing about mounting the vice with the jaws parallel to the Tee-slots is that then a milling cutter being feed along the X axis, which is what happens most times, the teeth on the cutter is cutting towards a jaw in the vice and not towards the gap between them. Taking very light cuts the latter set-up is not a problem, but when taking heavy cuts it could quite well be a major problem……….

+1 for taking the swivel base off, mine came off before I even first mounted the vice and I have never seen the need to fit/use it. In the spirit of the late John S, it is currently holding down a bit of shed floor until something better comes along.

Also, bigger may be better and usually is, but whatever vice, you usually need to be able to completely machine a part held in the vice in both X and Y without having to relocate the part to finish one face because the part is outside the X and Y travels. No point in having a vice so big that the tool cannot reach front to back of something held in it. Having said that, there are exceptions to every rule!

Chris

Edited By ChrisH on 26/05/2020 10:50:19

If you need a larger vice and not too heavy,consider the Darmet Precision vice.

https://darmet.com.pl/en/vises/1652-precision-machine-vise-fpzb

Dave
The Emerald Isle

Unlike most folk here I leave the swivel base on. I like the ability to clock the vice true when needed although my usual method of pulling it back hard against the studs before tightening in stages usually gets to around a thou or two in 4". My vice slots aren't that accurate relative to the jaws but tweaking the swivel easily took care of that. But I have a Bridgeport with plenty of vertical room.

For a non swivel vice I'd seriously consider flipping it over, clamping to a bar accurately aligned with the table and machining the slot sides true to each other and to the jaws. Make a T shape clamping "washer" with the lower part of the stem fitting nicely but not too tightly in the table slots and the upper part a similar fit in your re-worked vice slots. The pull back when tightening technique should then get you alignment accuracies rather better than mine. Not quite up to a well fitted key but close and far easier to shift.

I like my pair of the Vertex VJ-400 110 mm x 180 mm vices **LINK** . Basically a mechanical screw version of a lower end hydraulic vice they can be set to three different maximum openings. Normal vices are pretty much square capacity so a 110 mm / 4" jaw width vice opens to around 110 mm / 4". The VJ-400 goes out to 180 mm / 7" if need be so combining the lighter weight of a 4" vice with the ultimate capacity of a 7" one. Obviously it hasn't got the grip of a true 7" vice but I've always found it enough when needed. Generally I find it gets used pretty much as a 5" nominal vice. Relatively expensive now and lacks the fancy Kurt style angle lock anti jaw lift device but I find it a good performer.

Hafta say I'm more than a little skeptical about the practical behaviour of all the fancy automatic anti-jaw lift systems. I figure the benefit is ore due to being on a well made, or well fettled, vice.

As far as weight is concerned didn't Chick, the One-Lok people, use an alloy base at one time. I've long been tempted to try my hand at a home brew version.

If you want something bigger at, possibly, a more affordable price maybe the adjustable planer vice published in Popular Mechanics **LINK** would be a useful source of inspiration for a home build. Looks quite amenable to bolt up from lumps construction. Getting the working faces of the jaws dead square to the base looks to be the only part needing extra care.

Clive

At the museum, we have a large drill mill which has 500mm X travel, and a Tom Senior light vertical with a slightly smaller bed. 100mm vises are about the optimum size, and we have a pair which can be used together, but we also have one of ARC's 5" vises which opens much wider than the smaller ones. I think the 5" is the biggest that fits without being too big, and the swivel base is only used very occasionally. A 6" vise would be too big and too heavy for my liking.

Edited By old mart on 26/05/2020 14:10:03