Air supply to test run steam engine.

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Air supply to test run steam engine.

Home Forums Beginners questions Air supply to test run steam engine.

  • This topic has 20 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 9 May 2020 at 14:47 by John Paton 1.
Viewing 21 posts - 1 through 21 (of 21 total)
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  • #469613
    Paul Rogers 7
    Participant
      @paulrogers7

      Hi.can any one suggested a small compressor which will give me enough air to test run my steam engine, (10h).i am a bit stuck on this,thanks.

      Paul

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      #10214
      Paul Rogers 7
      Participant
        @paulrogers7

        Small compressors.

        #469624
        Ian Parkin
        Participant
          @ianparkin39383

          Paul

          really any compressor will run that for testing purposes…how much to spend is up to you

          a cheap one from Lidl or aldi will do but be noisy (very)

          you can charge it up somewhere and then run your model for quite some time without it powered up

          a bambi or junair or similar compressor will run continuously with only a whisper

          #469630
          Stuart Bridger
          Participant
            @stuartbridger82290

            Be wary of entry level airbrush compressors. i have a Sparmax Arism Mini, which is fine for its original purpose, it painted my Stuart 10V , but doesn't quite have the oomph to run it.

            #469634
            duncan webster 1
            Participant
              @duncanwebster1

              I've got a steam cleaner which claims to generate steam at 4 bar. It uses 1.5 kW. Anyone tried running an engine off one?

              #469635
              Paul Rogers 7
              Participant
                @paulrogers7

                Hi Alan and stuart .good point on noise. I did think about the air brush compressors. I had a look at bambi compressors I agree some thing like this is the way to go..thanks again.

                Paul

                #469637
                AdrianR
                Participant
                  @adrianr18614

                  I have a Bostich 6L A bit pricey to just run a model engine, but I got it for air nailers and now mostly use it for air dusting. I think compressed air in the workshop is very useful. Stanley does a similar one and I expect there are plenty of other oil less compressors out there.

                  I did use it on my engine, the regulator goes right from 7bar down to 0, and I ran my engine at 5psi easily.

                  Adrian

                  #469670
                  Pete.
                  Participant
                    @pete-2

                    With compressors, pressure it irrelevant, they all make the same give or take, cfm (cubic feet minute) is the rating to pay attention to, that's the airflow it can create, 14 cfm is a good rating for a home workshop.

                    #469706
                    JasonB
                    Moderator
                      @jasonb

                      But do watch out for what CFM is quoted. Most hobby compressor makers only quote displacement cfm but what actually comes out is FAD cfm – free air delivery. If you follow the Bostich link above you will see the FA is less than half the displacement.

                      For just running say upto 1" bore engines with no load at moderate speed the aim for around 3-4 cfm FAD which is going to mean a compressor sold as 8cfm. Get a tank of 20-25lts so it does not need to run all the time. A lot of the silent types can't produce this sort of volume.

                      #469710
                      AdrianR
                      Participant
                        @adrianr18614

                        Yes Jason is right. I only ran a 1/2" bore engine so the compressor hardly ran. If I am using a lot of air then I do get a bit worried about the duty cycle on the motor, it gets quite warm.

                        OK for an air nailer or duster, not much use for spray guns etc.

                        #469713
                        not done it yet
                        Participant
                          @notdoneityet

                          As further explanation/addition of/to JB’s comment.

                          That bostich rating is particularly enlightening for those that need to assess the usefulness of the product. Note that while the displacement exceeds the FAD by 2 1/3 times, they actually quote the pressure for that particular FAD at 7 Bar. This ratio will not be anywhere near as bad at the much reduced pressure required to run a small item at relatively low speed/pressure (m gillygan might note the subtleties/honesty in this specification &#128578, but it does admirably demonstrate the possible difference between the truth and those alternative specifications – one chosen to mislead the unsuspecting buyer and the honest specs which indicate the true output.

                          Note as an explanation for those that don’t understand why – most pneumatic tools operate at 6 Bar, or less, so the Bostich spec provides an honest output for real users. That machine is a genuine 2 1/2 cu.ft. machine for the serious user. Most cheap machines, touted as that size on displacement might deliver that volume of fee air at very low pressure but not at realistic pneumatic tool normal usage pressure. Likewise, of course, cheap air-tools suppliers often under-state the FAD required for those tools, which can further exacerbate the choice of matching compressor and tool.🙂

                          The bottom line is that tool air-requirement and air-delivery need to be at least matched at parity if continuous use is required/expected. Intermittent use is often accepted as normal, by amateur users. Much like cheap electric welders and other items which have to be ‘rested’ if used above a certain power.🙂

                          #469721
                          Michael Gilligan
                          Participant
                            @michaelgilligan61133
                            Posted by not done it yet on 07/05/2020 07:58:01:

                            .
                            As further explanation/addition of/to JB’s comment.

                            […]
                            (m gillygan might note the subtleties/honesty in this specification 🙂, but […]

                            .

                            Who is he ?

                            … is there an imposter in our midst ?

                            MichaelG.

                            .

                            P.S. __ having just skimmed through the Bostich manual, I am quite impressed

                            … also noted the clear statement about 25% duty cycle.

                             

                            Edited By Michael Gilligan on 07/05/2020 08:51:25

                            #469787
                            Paul Rogers 7
                            Participant
                              @paulrogers7

                              Thanks to you all the advice you have given is amazing. I could have made a big mistake. I am now haveing a rethink on the route I am going to take.

                              Thanks Paul.

                              #469796
                              Paul Rogers 7
                              Participant
                                @paulrogers7

                                Update. I have purchased. A 24lt.9.6cfm.2.5hp compressor .thanks for the advice given by you all.

                                Paul

                                #469926
                                oldvelo
                                Participant
                                  @oldvelo

                                  Hi

                                  I guess I am too late with this comment for Roger it may be of use to others. A repurposed refrigerator ran various small model engines successfully.

                                  #469996
                                  john carruthers
                                  Participant
                                    @johncarruthers46255

                                    For testing I use either a plastic pipe from the coffee machine steam outlet, or a hand pumped garden sprayer.
                                    An old fridge compressor could be pressed into service?

                                    #470142
                                    Mike Brett
                                    Participant
                                      @mikebrett89695

                                      I run my 10H on a fish tank air pump, albeit a rather large one. It runs about half dozen of my smaller engines plus surprisingly a large beam engine. But I also have an Aldi compressor, which I can confirm is very noisy.

                                      #470147
                                      JasonB
                                      Moderator
                                        @jasonb

                                        Couple of mine I just blow down the tube and off they go, but may not suit everyone!

                                        #470221
                                        Neil Wyatt
                                        Moderator
                                          @neilwyatt
                                          Posted by duncan webster on 06/05/2020 19:37:25:

                                          I've got a steam cleaner which claims to generate steam at 4 bar. It uses 1.5 kW. Anyone tried running an engine off one?

                                          I keep meaning to!

                                          The Earlex ones use a radiator cap as a safety valve.

                                          Neil

                                          #470224
                                          Neil Wyatt
                                          Moderator
                                            @neilwyatt

                                            I said this back in 2011…

                                            I have a small diaphragm compressor meant for airbrushes and the like. I have added an old fire extinguisher (test 300psi) as a reciever (it will just struggle up to 30psi.)
                                             
                                            I always put a few Ml of steam oil in the air tube so on startup the whole system gets internally lubricated, but as there is no steam to wash out the lube you don't need to keep adding oil even for fairly lengthy runs.
                                             
                                            To run my engines at a sensible speed (I like to be able to watch the motion) I use an air bleed valve that keeps the pressure down to about 3-4psi or even less. This is for cylinder typically 3/4" by 3/4". I find a bleed valve is needed as you can't easily make a 'safety valve' for air that is sensitive enough. So I'd say that, for smaller engines, an airbrush compressor will be fine.
                                             
                                            Running on air is very different from steam, as on steam they run as heat engines with expansion of the steam and can get a lot more power out of less steam. On air they will run as pressure engines. The run fast easily, but don't have a lot of power – you will need to be sure the engine will spin a few revs if you flick the flywheel – low pressure air doesn't have the power to beat a misaligned bearing. I guess that the valves are best set up differently, but I'm not expert enough to know the difference.
                                             
                                            Strangely, you seem to get more leaks with air – oily bubbles in odd places around gasketed joints. Steam is more fun – I always seem to get a jet of hot oily water shooting out of the exhaust across my workshop! Experts say that engines run smoother on steam too.
                                            #470376
                                            John Paton 1
                                            Participant
                                              @johnpaton1

                                              I used to test run mine using a compressor stripped from a gash domestic refrigerator. The Stuart H10 ticked over nicely on it but the larger 'Real' engine was borderline until run in.

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