Eagle 4-4-0 Main Horn Drawing Question

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Eagle 4-4-0 Main Horn Drawing Question

Home Forums Beginners questions Eagle 4-4-0 Main Horn Drawing Question

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  • #466947
    Noah Partida
    Participant
      @noahpartida44263

      Hello everyone,

      Right now I am solid modeling the Eagle 4-4-0 by Martin Evans so that when I am able to put lots of money into this hobby I can. I have come to a predicament with the dimensions for the main horns. In the picture I have attached I don't know what distances the flanges should be set from one another as well as the hole distances. If anyone could help me with this problem and or explain to me how this particular part is made that would be great! Thanks!Eagle Main Horn

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      #10184
      Noah Partida
      Participant
        @noahpartida44263
        #466990
        David Wasson
        Participant
          @davidwasson11489

          The horn blocks are usually made from a casting with the webbing already in position, that's why there is not really any dimensions . The position of the holes for the rivets is also not critical. Just position the holes between the webbing and make them all look the same.

          I have not built an Eagle, but, I have completed a Super Simplex by Evans. The horn blocks are pretty much the same as those on the Eagle.

          #467002
          Phil H1
          Participant
            @philh196021

            An additional bit of detail. Many years ago, these types of main horns were supplied as 'hot pressings' rather than castings. The hot pressings were quite nicely done with nice fine webs. If you buy castings from the usual suppliers, they might come along as perfectly functional but far less refined shapes with very thick webs.

            If ever I build another engine, I will definitely go down the road of fabricated steel horns. I believe the fabricated route is far cheaper and actually far easier to machine and fit. Also, the horns are usually positioned out of view on the inside of the locomotive frames. The fabricated route might be worth considering?

            #467018
            JasonB
            Moderator
              @jasonb

              Are the hole positions on the frame drawings?

              #467033
              Phil H1
              Participant
                @philh196021

                Jason,

                I have access to quite a few locomotive drawing sets and none of them show the hole positions – either on the frames or the horns. There is usually just a vague note saying 3/32" rivets and that is it.

                I assume it is partly because the castings are quite variable and if you drill the holes from the frame drawings, the rivet head will probably end up too close to a web. That reason combined with the fact that 3/32" rivets are way over scale size for most engines anyway plus most horns are out of view, so the detail doesn't matter.

                Its obviously a different case for tender horns where the rivet heads are clearly visible but again, the drawings don't go into details for those either.

                It all seems to be a model locomotiveism.

                Phil H

                #467042
                Nicholas Farr
                Participant
                  @nicholasfarr14254

                  Hi Noah, I assume when you say flanges, your talking about the webs that the holes are in between of. These as have been said are not critical, just let your eye be your guide and it is quite normal to mark and fit each horn block in their respective slots and then mark the holes in the frame by using a transfer punch or just a drill, the webs are all sloped like the top ones are shown. Of course you can put the holes in the frames first and then mark the horn blocks, just set them to miss the webs.

                  Regards Nick.

                  #467057
                  Dave Wootton
                  Participant
                    @davewootton

                    Hi Noah

                    As has already been stated the webs on the horns depend on whoever supplies the casting, if this is the 2 1/2" gauge Eagle, the 2 1/2" gauge association supplies castings at very reasonable prices. It would be very worthwhile for you to join the association the club magazine is worth the modest subscription on it's own, they are a friendly lot and very helpful ( I used to be membership secretary and the recruiting gene never leaves you!).

                    Also very worthwhile looking at John Baguley's website, to see great photo's and descriptions of the building of engines in this scale. His Helen Longish won the Curly bowl a few years ago, there is some inspiring stuff on there, I admit to pinching lots of his ideas.

                    Dave

                    There's a picture of my part built Horwich Crab in 2 1/2" gauge in my album, just retired so hoping to get on with finishing it now.

                     

                    Edited By Dave Wootton on 25/04/2020 19:07:19

                    #467117
                    Noah Partida
                    Participant
                      @noahpartida44263

                      Thank you all for the replies! I just want to make sure that I am understanding all of your answers. So the webbing acts as supports for the main horn? Also, where will the horn be placed, on the outside or inside of the frame?

                      Right now I am not machining the full loco but rather just 3D modeling so that is why I'd like to get as close to the final product as possible so later down the road when I'm done with college I will hopefully be able to make them.

                      Again thank you all for all your help, I feel very welcomed in this community!

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